Wisconsin court reinstates lawsuit against Armslist

Discussion of firearm-related news stories. Please use "Off Topic" for non-firearm news.
Forum rules
Do NOT post the full text of published articles. If you would like to discuss a news story please link to it and, at most, include a brief summary of the article.

Wisconsin court reinstates lawsuit against Armslist

Postby jdege on Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:52 pm

Wisconsin court reinstates lawsuit against gun seller in shooting that killed three
http://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/383993-wisconsin-court-reinstates-lawsuit-claiming-online-gun-seller-is-liable
The Wisconsin Court of Appeals on Thursday reinstated a lawsuit that argued an online gun retailer could be held liable for selling a weapon to an individual barred from owning firearms.

Radcliffe Haughton, who was prohibited from owning a gun due to a domestic violence injunction, was able to buy one through Armslist.com. He later shot up a Milwaukee-area spa, killing three people, including his ex-wife, and injuring four others before killing himself.

The Milwaukee Journal Sentinel reported that the Milwaukee County Circuit Court had previously dismissed a lawsuit against Armslist.com, ruling that it could not be held liable for publishing third-party content.

However, the court of appeals overruled that decision and reinstated the case, filed by the daughter of one of the victims of the 2012 spa shooting. The court said the lawsuit seeks liability for using a "website design feature to facilitate illegal firearms purchases," which is not protected under the law.

[...]
User avatar
jdege
 
Posts: 4465 [View]
Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2007 10:07 am

Re: Wisconsin court reinstates lawsuit against Armslist

Postby Holland&Holland on Fri Apr 20, 2018 5:58 am

jdege wrote:Wisconsin court reinstates lawsuit against gun seller in shooting that killed three
http://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/383993-wisconsin-court-reinstates-lawsuit-claiming-online-gun-seller-is-liable
The Wisconsin Court of Appeals on Thursday reinstated a lawsuit that argued an online gun retailer could be held liable for selling a weapon to an individual barred from owning firearms.

Radcliffe Haughton, who was prohibited from owning a gun due to a domestic violence injunction, was able to buy one through Armslist.com. He later shot up a Milwaukee-area spa, killing three people, including his ex-wife, and injuring four others before killing himself.

The Milwaukee Journal Sentinel reported that the Milwaukee County Circuit Court had previously dismissed a lawsuit against Armslist.com, ruling that it could not be held liable for publishing third-party content.

However, the court of appeals overruled that decision and reinstated the case, filed by the daughter of one of the victims of the 2012 spa shooting. The court said the lawsuit seeks liability for using a "website design feature to facilitate illegal firearms purchases," which is not protected under the law.

[...]


Did it not go through an FFL?
User avatar
Holland&Holland
 
Posts: 12478 [View]
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 9:17 am

Re: Wisconsin court reinstates lawsuit against Armslist

Postby jdege on Fri Apr 20, 2018 6:05 am

AIUI, private sales are legal, in WI.

But the seller does need to do due diligence.
.
User avatar
jdege
 
Posts: 4465 [View]
Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2007 10:07 am

Wisconsin court reinstates lawsuit against Armslist

Postby INOR on Fri Apr 20, 2018 6:06 am

Sounds like may have been a p2p transfer where the seller just used armslist to list the gun and then didn’t sell it through a FFL? Hard to tell as there’s no detail on the actual transfer. So the suit is going forward saying that armslist facilitated the sale through its website and thereby encouraged it?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
INOR
 
Posts: 1304 [View]
Joined: Tue Nov 24, 2015 12:12 pm

Wisconsin court reinstates lawsuit against Armslist

Postby INOR on Fri Apr 20, 2018 6:16 am

It’s not a big leap from this for courts to allow suits against individuals for negligence in P2P transfers. We need to cover our rumps. I have sold only one gun in my entire life and it was to someone that I know. But even for that, we did a bill of sale which included both of our relevant information and his permit to purchase info. If I were selling more, I’d almost rather just pay a FFL.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
INOR
 
Posts: 1304 [View]
Joined: Tue Nov 24, 2015 12:12 pm

Re: Wisconsin court reinstates lawsuit against Armslist

Postby Ghost on Fri Apr 20, 2018 7:04 am

INOR wrote:It’s not a big leap from this for courts to allow suits against individuals for negligence in P2P transfers. We need to cover our rumps. I have sold only one gun in my entire life and it was to someone that I know. But even for that, we did a bill of sale which included both of our relevant information and his permit to purchase info. If I were selling more, I’d almost rather just pay a FFL.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Never sell, it’s easier to hit 17
User avatar
Ghost
 
Posts: 8246 [View]
Joined: Wed Feb 05, 2014 8:49 pm

Re: Wisconsin court reinstates lawsuit against Armslist

Postby jdege on Fri Apr 20, 2018 9:55 am

INOR wrote:It’s not a big leap from this for courts to allow suits against individuals for negligence in P2P transfers. We need to cover our rumps. I have sold only one gun in my entire life and it was to someone that I know. But even for that, we did a bill of sale which included both of our relevant information and his permit to purchase info. If I were selling more, I’d almost rather just pay a FFL.

Minnesota provides for specific criminal penalties, in some cases, for doing a private transfer without doing a background check.

https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/?id=609.66
609.66 DANGEROUS WEAPONS.

Subd. 1f. Gross misdemeanor; transferring firearm without background check. A person, other than a federally licensed firearms dealer, who transfers a pistol or semiautomatic military-style assault weapon to another without complying with the transfer requirements of section 624.7132, is guilty of a gross misdemeanor if the transferee possesses or uses the weapon within one year after the transfer in furtherance of a felony crime of violence, and if:

(1) the transferee was prohibited from possessing the weapon under section 624.713 at the time of the transfer; or

(2) it was reasonably foreseeable at the time of the transfer that the transferee was likely to use or possess the weapon in furtherance of a felony crime of violence.


624.7132 basically requires that you see an in-state drivers license and that you either see a Permit to Carry, a Permit to Purchase, or submit a Report of Transfer to the buyer's chief of police and wait five days for them to respond, before handing over the gun.
User avatar
jdege
 
Posts: 4465 [View]
Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2007 10:07 am

Re: Wisconsin court reinstates lawsuit against Armslist

Postby LarryFlew on Fri Apr 20, 2018 11:35 am

However, the court of appeals overruled that decision and reinstated the case, filed by the daughter of one of the victims of the 2012 spa shooting. The court said the lawsuit seeks liability for using a "website design feature to facilitate illegal firearms purchases," which is not protected under the law.

Seems with all the things you have to check off when using armslist the quotes would be BS to begin with.



I am 18 years of age or older.
I understand that ARMSLIST DOES NOT become involved in transactions between parties and does not certify, investigate, or in any way guarantee the legal capacity of any party to transact.
I am responsible for obeying all applicable enforcement mechanisms, including, but not limited to federal, state, municipal, and tribal statutes, rules, regulations, ordinances, and judicial decisions, any applicable Presidential Executive Orders, including compliance with all applicable licensing requirements.
I will not use Armslist.com for any illegal purpose.
If I am at all unsure about firearm sales or transfers, I will contact the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosive at 1-800-ATF-GUNS and visit the ATF website at http://www.atf.gov.
I will help to ensure the overall openness and accessibility of the site to all users through a peer-review process. I understand that failure to adhere to proper internet protocol and etiquette may result in removal of my listings or more severe corrective action.
ARMSLIST may edit or remove information, including my listings, from the site without notice.
If I violate these terms, ARMSLIST may permanently remove me from the site or, depending on the nature and severity of the violation, avail itself of such remedies as are prescribed by law. Whilst ARMSLIST ABSOLUTELY BELIEVES AND CHAMPIONS "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms," ARMSLIST will comply with federal, state, municipal, and tribal law enforcement entities pursuant to the Constitution of the United States and Due Process of Law.
I agree to abide by the spam and listing policies. I may only have one account and may only list an item once, in the correct category, and in my physical location.
I understand that the sale or trade of animals on Armslist is prohibited.
I take responsibility for my actions whilst using Armslist.com. I also take responsibility for any and all of my actions related to, or resulting from, my use of Armslist.com. Further, I am solely responsible for any and all consequences of such my actions.
I indemnify and hold harmless ARMSLIST and all of its owners, directors, officers, employees, and agents for any and all loss, harm, damage, costs, liability, and expense caused to them, whether intentionally or unintentionally, by my use of Armslist.com, including but not limited to direct or indirect results of violations of any and all applicable laws.
ARMSLIST may make changes to these terms at any time without notifying me. As a user, I am solely responsible for reading the most current version of the terms and conditions.
By clicking "I agree," I electronically represent ("sign") that I agree to the above terms and further certify that I have read, and completely agree, to be legally bound by the ARMSLIST Terms of Use
If you're having second thoughts you're two ahead of most Democrats
User avatar
LarryFlew
 
Posts: 5132 [View]
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2009 7:37 am
Location: Hamburg, MN - CZ fan - Class of 66 - USAF 66-70 - NRA life since 1970

Re: Wisconsin court reinstates lawsuit against Armslist

Postby OldmanFCSA on Fri Apr 20, 2018 1:12 pm

MN Gun Talk will be next for its "MARKETPLACE Firearms" section promotes the electronic sale of firearms.

Just kidding ................................................................ or am I ???

If they win, all internet sources will be shutdown.
OldmanFCSA
 
Posts: 3216 [View]
Joined: Sat Sep 24, 2011 9:55 pm
Location: Osceola, WI.

Re: Wisconsin court reinstates lawsuit against Armslist

Postby crbutler on Fri Apr 20, 2018 2:33 pm

Are you guys quoting MN law on a WI case?
crbutler
 
Posts: 1649 [View]
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2011 8:29 pm

Re: Wisconsin court reinstates lawsuit against Armslist

Postby Ghost on Fri Apr 20, 2018 4:42 pm

crbutler wrote:Are you guys quoting MN law on a WI case?

I see some talk about protecting yourself from a situation like this in MN but I don’t see anybody directly applying it to Wisconsin. Then again I can’t read so it is what it is.
User avatar
Ghost
 
Posts: 8246 [View]
Joined: Wed Feb 05, 2014 8:49 pm

Wisconsin court reinstates lawsuit against Armslist

Postby INOR on Fri Apr 20, 2018 6:36 pm

crbutler wrote:Are you guys quoting MN law on a WI case?


Sorry, I wasn’t trying to turn this into a discussion about WI vs MN law but just observing in general that we need to cover our butts when we transfer. Goes without saying I know.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
INOR
 
Posts: 1304 [View]
Joined: Tue Nov 24, 2015 12:12 pm

Re: Wisconsin court reinstates lawsuit against Armslist

Postby Holland&Holland on Fri Apr 20, 2018 9:50 pm

jdege wrote:
INOR wrote:It’s not a big leap from this for courts to allow suits against individuals for negligence in P2P transfers. We need to cover our rumps. I have sold only one gun in my entire life and it was to someone that I know. But even for that, we did a bill of sale which included both of our relevant information and his permit to purchase info. If I were selling more, I’d almost rather just pay a FFL.

Minnesota provides for specific criminal penalties, in some cases, for doing a private transfer without doing a background check.

https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/?id=609.66
609.66 DANGEROUS WEAPONS.

Subd. 1f. Gross misdemeanor; transferring firearm without background check. A person, other than a federally licensed firearms dealer, who transfers a pistol or semiautomatic military-style assault weapon to another without complying with the transfer requirements of section 624.7132, is guilty of a gross misdemeanor if the transferee possesses or uses the weapon within one year after the transfer in furtherance of a felony crime of violence, and if:

(1) the transferee was prohibited from possessing the weapon under section 624.713 at the time of the transfer; or

(2) it was reasonably foreseeable at the time of the transfer that the transferee was likely to use or possess the weapon in furtherance of a felony crime of violence.


624.7132 basically requires that you see an in-state drivers license and that you either see a Permit to Carry, a Permit to Purchase, or submit a Report of Transfer to the buyer's chief of police and wait five days for them to respond, before handing over the gun.


Not if you do the transfer at a gun show. The loop hole allows you to sell to anyone even if you are an ffl. Pretty sure that is how the anti crowd has described it.
User avatar
Holland&Holland
 
Posts: 12478 [View]
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 9:17 am


Return to In The News

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 12 guests

cron