Anti 2A commercials

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Re: Anti 2A commercials

Postby MJY65 on Thu May 10, 2018 9:25 am

yukonjasper wrote:Are there any sources that could step up and match Anytown's efforts?


I understand and share your frustration, but I'm not sure that's the best way to spend money. If there is a mega donor out there, I'd like to see them donate to whoever the Rs run for Governor and also to R House candidates.

I also ask each of you to consider what a D Governor and Legislature would be giving us this spring. I understand that there are some good Democrats that are on our side. I understand that some of our Republican "friends" have been unreliable. Fine. Oppose them in the primary, but once they get to the general, it's a no brainer. The hyper partisan nature of politics has made every Democratic legislator nothing but a proxy vote for the leadership.
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Re: Anti 2A commercials

Postby jdege on Thu May 10, 2018 9:32 am

ex-LT wrote:
jdege wrote:
yukonjasper wrote:I noticed 2 commercials tonight on network television. First was three high schoolers doing there best to convey how unsafe they feel going to school with all those scary guns out there. Second was Mike Freeman and County Sheriffs and Minneapolis police chief calling for universal background checks for all purchases. All of this is "Common Sense".

What is the rebuttal from the law abiding gun owners? Who is on point to challenge these messages?

Minnesota law already requires background checks on private transfers of handguns and assault weapons.

Minn. Stat. 609
Subd. 1f. Gross misdemeanor; transferring firearm without background check. A person, other than a federally licensed firearms dealer, who transfers a pistol or semiautomatic military-style assault weapon to another without complying with the transfer requirements of section 624.7132, is guilty of a gross misdemeanor if the transferee possesses or uses the weapon within one year after the transfer in furtherance of a felony crime of violence, and if:
(1) the transferee was prohibited from possessing the weapon under section 624.713 at the time of the transfer; or

(2) it was reasonably foreseeable at the time of the transfer that the transferee was likely to use or possess the weapon in furtherance of a felony crime of violence.

No, it doesn't require background checks on private party sales.
Nothing in the statute you quoted requires a background check. All it does is define the offense if three specific criteria are met.

What it does is put you at a significant risk, if you perform a private transfer without performing a background check.

Doing a private sale without seeing a purchase permit or a carry permit is not smart, given this statute and the potential civil penalties.
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Re: Anti 2A commercials

Postby ex-LT on Thu May 10, 2018 12:14 pm

jdege wrote:
ex-LT wrote:
jdege wrote:Minnesota law already requires background checks on private transfers of handguns and assault weapons.

No, it doesn't require background checks on private party sales.
Nothing in the statute you quoted requires a background check. All it does is define the offense if three specific criteria are met.

What it does is put you at a significant risk, if you perform a private transfer without performing a background check.

Doing a private sale without seeing a purchase permit or a carry permit is not smart, given this statute and the potential civil penalties.

I agree with the point about wanting to see a PTP/PTC. I was just refuting your original statement that MN law requires background checks on private transfers of handguns and scary black rifles.
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Re: Anti 2A commercials

Postby Ghost on Thu May 10, 2018 1:19 pm

I’m scared just thinking about it, not. Why anyone sells guns is beyond me.
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Re: Anti 2A commercials

Postby Holland&Holland on Thu May 10, 2018 8:36 pm

Ghost wrote:I’m scared just thinking about it, not. Why anyone sells guns is beyond me.


I typically agree with you but when you end up with 2 of the same gun sometimes you realize your spending habits and your short term memory are not compatible.
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Re: Anti 2A commercials

Postby Ghost on Fri May 11, 2018 7:33 am

Holland&Holland wrote:
Ghost wrote:I’m scared just thinking about it, not. Why anyone sells guns is beyond me.


I typically agree with you but when you end up with 2 of the same gun sometimes you realize your spending habits and your short term memory are not compatible.

I buy duplicates in the event I may wear one out down the road.
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Re: Anti 2A commercials

Postby MJY65 on Fri May 11, 2018 7:57 am

Ghost wrote:
Holland&Holland wrote:
Ghost wrote:I’m scared just thinking about it, not. Why anyone sells guns is beyond me.


I typically agree with you but when you end up with 2 of the same gun sometimes you realize your spending habits and your short term memory are not compatible.

I buy duplicates in the event I may wear one out down the road.


I've traded/sold a bunch. Some just haven't been what I was looking for. No need to take up safe space with something you don't like.
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Re: Anti 2A commercials

Postby jdege on Fri May 11, 2018 9:34 am

MJY65 wrote:I've traded/sold a bunch. Some just haven't been what I was looking for. No need to take up safe space with something you don't like.

My problem is that my nephews are old enough (and employed enough) to buy their own guns, so there's no space in their gun safes for the guns I no longer use.
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Re: Anti 2A commercials

Postby bstrawse on Fri May 11, 2018 10:32 am

yukonjasper wrote:I noticed 2 commercials tonight on network television. First was three high schoolers doing there best to convey how unsafe they feel going to school with all those scary guns out there. Second was Mike Freeman and County Sheriffs and Minneapolis police chief calling for universal background checks for all purchases. All of this is "Common Sense".

What is the rebuttal from the law abiding gun owners? Who is on point to challenge these messages?


They're spending $160,000 to air these along with probably a $10k per commercial cost to develop the ads.

Happy to get ads done if someone has a spare $200k around.
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Re: Anti 2A commercials

Postby bstrawse on Fri May 11, 2018 10:33 am

jdege wrote:
yukonjasper wrote:I noticed 2 commercials tonight on network television. First was three high schoolers doing there best to convey how unsafe they feel going to school with all those scary guns out there. Second was Mike Freeman and County Sheriffs and Minneapolis police chief calling for universal background checks for all purchases. All of this is "Common Sense".

What is the rebuttal from the law abiding gun owners? Who is on point to challenge these messages?

Minnesota law already requires background checks on private transfers of handguns and assault weapons.

Minn. Stat. 609
Subd. 1f. Gross misdemeanor; transferring firearm without background check. A person, other than a federally licensed firearms dealer, who transfers a pistol or semiautomatic military-style assault weapon to another without complying with the transfer requirements of section 624.7132, is guilty of a gross misdemeanor if the transferee possesses or uses the weapon within one year after the transfer in furtherance of a felony crime of violence, and if:
(1) the transferee was prohibited from possessing the weapon under section 624.713 at the time of the transfer; or

(2) it was reasonably foreseeable at the time of the transfer that the transferee was likely to use or possess the weapon in furtherance of a felony crime of violence.


Minnesota law then goes on to exempt private sales from the background check requirement.
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Re: Anti 2A commercials

Postby bstrawse on Fri May 11, 2018 10:36 am

Re: The Ads.

We do not believe that the ads are adding significant pressure to the legislature - there is just under a week and a half left to go in the session -- all key deadlines have passed -- bills are now being compared in conference committees.

While we remain vigilant and aren't about to let our guard down for even a moment, the critical moment in this years campaign has really passed -- even if we got $200,000 today from a generous donor, we'd likely hold our fire for the November elections at this point.

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Re: Anti 2A commercials

Postby bstrawse on Fri May 11, 2018 10:38 am

MJY65 wrote:
yukonjasper wrote:Are there any sources that could step up and match Anytown's efforts?


I understand and share your frustration, but I'm not sure that's the best way to spend money. If there is a mega donor out there, I'd like to see them donate to whoever the Rs run for Governor and also to R House candidates.

I also ask each of you to consider what a D Governor and Legislature would be giving us this spring. I understand that there are some good Democrats that are on our side. I understand that some of our Republican "friends" have been unreliable. Fine. Oppose them in the primary, but once they get to the general, it's a no brainer. The hyper partisan nature of politics has made every Democratic legislator nothing but a proxy vote for the leadership.


A mega donor can give $2,000 to the Governor candidate and $1,000 each to pro-gun candidates.

They can give the Caucus or our PAC an unlimited amount of money :)
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Re: Anti 2A commercials

Postby jdege on Fri May 11, 2018 10:40 am

bstrawse wrote:
jdege wrote:
yukonjasper wrote:I noticed 2 commercials tonight on network television. First was three high schoolers doing there best to convey how unsafe they feel going to school with all those scary guns out there. Second was Mike Freeman and County Sheriffs and Minneapolis police chief calling for universal background checks for all purchases. All of this is "Common Sense".

What is the rebuttal from the law abiding gun owners? Who is on point to challenge these messages?

Minnesota law already requires background checks on private transfers of handguns and assault weapons.

Minn. Stat. 609
Subd. 1f. Gross misdemeanor; transferring firearm without background check. A person, other than a federally licensed firearms dealer, who transfers a pistol or semiautomatic military-style assault weapon to another without complying with the transfer requirements of section 624.7132, is guilty of a gross misdemeanor if the transferee possesses or uses the weapon within one year after the transfer in furtherance of a felony crime of violence, and if:
(1) the transferee was prohibited from possessing the weapon under section 624.713 at the time of the transfer; or

(2) it was reasonably foreseeable at the time of the transfer that the transferee was likely to use or possess the weapon in furtherance of a felony crime of violence.


Minnesota law then goes on to exempt private sales from the background check requirement.

It was Joe Olson who first pointed out to me this provision, and he certainly sounded as if had force.

I'm not going to assume he was wrong.
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Re: Anti 2A commercials

Postby westhope on Fri May 11, 2018 6:15 pm

So what do the "Anti's" have to gain by running the ads at this time?

Do they know something that is to be done at the last moment in the legislature?

Are they positioning the "Anti-Gun" candidates for the upcoming election?

What do they get from spending $200,000 at this time when the public's memory is about 1 week, 1 month maximum?
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Re: Anti 2A commercials

Postby bstrawse on Fri May 11, 2018 6:26 pm

jdege wrote:It was Joe Olson who first pointed out to me this provision, and he certainly sounded as if had force.

I'm not going to assume he was wrong.


MN 624.7132 Subd 12, Clause (1) creates an exemption for: "a transfer by a person other than a federally licensed firearms dealer" from the provision requiring that a background check be completed in MN's transferee law - which for some reason is what I thought you were referencing, even though you linked 609.66.

You are correct that 609.66 contains potential criminal liability for a private sale - but only if the following things happen:
1) The transfer happened without a background check AND
2) The person receiving the firearm committed a felony crime of violence with the firearm AND
3) The person was a prohibited person under MN law at the time of the transfer AND
4) "it was reasonably foreseeable at the time of the transfer that the transferee was likely to use or possess the weapon in furtherance of a felony crime of violence"

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