Operator in Eden Prairie

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Re: Operator in Eden Prairie

Postby Citiot on Mon Dec 03, 2018 1:40 pm

Protect MN Facebook is already confusingly spinning this already.

"We are watching this case closely. If the gun lobby had been able to push Stand Your Ground through in Minnesota in 2017, this could have been a very different outcome. "

HE DIDN'T HAVE A PERMIT TO CARRY

Hypothetically, if in 2017 Stand Your Ground passed, the suspect still did not have a permit to carry. Would his thought process would have been "I am illegally carrying a gun, but, I can stand my ground so I'll shoot?"

I cannot fathom the absurdity, I just can't. Oh, I'm banned from their tolerant, open minded and inclusive page so I cannot ask.

The suspect is an idiot. We all know permit to carry holders are more law abiding with comparable demographics.
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Re: Operator in Eden Prairie

Postby yukonjasper on Mon Dec 03, 2018 1:44 pm

His only possible defense is disparity of force. People are not immune from hearing someone else's opinion, it's really about how it escalates and whether he felt he was in danger. Reluctant participant gets shaky but you should be able to share your opinion (might not be smart) without fear of physical assault. Reasonable people should be able to disagree without any physical altercation. If he brandished because he thought he was about to be overwhelmed and assaulted......physical contact had already occurred- initiated by whom?
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Re: Operator in Eden Prairie

Postby Citiot on Mon Dec 03, 2018 1:52 pm

yukonjasper wrote:His only possible defense is disparity of force.


For the terroristic threats charge perhaps. But carrying without a permit, he's SOL.

The WCCO facebook has all the usual "good guy with a gun" comments. Carrying without a permit means he isn't in the good guy category.
Last edited by Citiot on Mon Dec 03, 2018 2:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Operator in Eden Prairie

Postby INOR on Mon Dec 03, 2018 1:54 pm

YJ...did you read it? They’re saying he left the area and then came back and reestablished contact. Hardly a defense available if that’s true.


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Re: Operator in Eden Prairie

Postby yukonjasper on Mon Dec 03, 2018 5:45 pm

You are right, if that is true. If there is one thing I've learned, it's that people are not opposed to lying if they think.they will win. That being said, i don't think we are dealing with an intelligent person.
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Re: Operator in Eden Prairie

Postby jshuberg on Fri Dec 07, 2018 2:20 pm

If the report that he recorded himself saying "give me a reason, just give me a reason" is true, the guy is screwed.

“A defendant, who provokes an encounter as a result of which he finds it necessary to use deadly force to defend himself, is guilty of an unlawful homicide and cannot claim that he acted in self-defense.”
https://caselaw.findlaw.com/mn-supreme- ... 85574.html

Although he didn't use deadly force in this situation (firing his gun) he did commit a crime, 2nd degree assault and terroristic threats by pointing his gun at the teens. The requirement to be a reluctant participant still applies in any use of force scenario. And by his actions and words he was attempting to provoke the teens into escalating the violence. By doing so, he has eliminated his "reluctant participant" status, and cannot claim self-defense as a defense for his actions in court.

It appears this guy was completely in the wrong.

As far as "stand your ground" is concerned, the duty to retreat will not be the deciding factor in his guilt or innocence. This case (the assault and terroristic threat) will hinge on whether or not he was a reluctant participant to the violence. So anyone making any claims that "stand your ground" would have effected this case in any way simply doesn't know the law, or is intentionally misrepresenting it.
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Re: Operator in Eden Prairie

Postby Holland&Holland on Fri Dec 07, 2018 11:08 pm

jshuberg wrote:
It appears this guy was completely in the wrong.



Being found guilty of law as it is currently in force and being completely wrong are 2 completely different things ;)
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Re: Operator in Eden Prairie

Postby MJY65 on Sat Dec 08, 2018 5:12 am

^^^^^^

I'm pretty sure that provoking a conflict with one's big mouth has been frowned upon since long before MN was making laws. This guy would have been in trouble with Moses.
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Re: Operator in Eden Prairie

Postby Holland&Holland on Sat Dec 08, 2018 6:52 am

MJY65 wrote:^^^^^^

I'm pretty sure that provoking a conflict with one's big mouth has been frowned upon since long before MN was making laws. This guy would have been in trouble with Moses.

This would not be the first time a gang of youths with no respect for anything has attacked an adult either.

Not saying he is in the right by any means but there are 2 sides at fault here. I would not give the other a full pass on social media.
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Re: Operator in Eden Prairie

Postby xd ED on Sat Dec 08, 2018 7:21 am

Holland&Holland wrote:
MJY65 wrote:^^^^^^

I'm pretty sure that provoking a conflict with one's big mouth has been frowned upon since long before MN was making laws. This guy would have been in trouble with Moses.

This would not be the first time a gang of youths with no respect for anything has attacked an adult either.

Not saying he is in the right by any means but there are 2 sides at fault here. I would not give the other a full pass on social media.


^^^THIS^^^
By all accounts presented, it was a group of youths who were not immediately involved in the initial, verbal exchange, that escalated the incident to a physical encounter.
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Re: Operator in Eden Prairie

Postby jshuberg on Sun Dec 16, 2018 1:48 am

Keep in mind though that being a willing participant in an argument, including one where insults are thrown around does not put your reluctant participant status in jeopardy. One has to be a willing participant in the violence before a claim of self defense is forfeit. Threatening someone verbally, or intentionally trying to get the other party to escalate are no-nos. Arguing with someone in and of itself is a perfectly fine, legal activity.
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Re: Operator in Eden Prairie

Postby Grayskies on Sun Dec 16, 2018 2:09 am

jshuberg wrote:Keep in mind though that being a willing participant in an argument, including one where insults are thrown around does not put your reluctant participant status in jeopardy. One has to be a willing participant in the violence before a claim of self defense is forfeit. Threatening someone verbally, or intentionally trying to get the other party to escalate are no-nos. Arguing with someone in and of itself is a perfectly fine, legal activity.

That seems like a very blurry and near invisible line in today's trigger prone micro-agressionable speech can be violence Leftists.

Not saying I disagree.

Note: The use of the word trigger has nothing to do with guns.
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Re: Operator in Eden Prairie

Postby Holland&Holland on Sun Dec 16, 2018 6:53 am

Grayskies wrote:
jshuberg wrote:Keep in mind though that being a willing participant in an argument, including one where insults are thrown around does not put your reluctant participant status in jeopardy. One has to be a willing participant in the violence before a claim of self defense is forfeit. Threatening someone verbally, or intentionally trying to get the other party to escalate are no-nos. Arguing with someone in and of itself is a perfectly fine, legal activity.

That seems like a very blurry and near invisible line in today's trigger prone micro-agressionable speech can be violence Leftists.

Not saying I disagree.

Note: The use of the word trigger has nothing to do with guns.


Not blurry at all, let me break it down for you. If you are a law abiding permit holder then you are by definition in the wrong regardless of circumstances. If you are of questionable character with a criminal past, then you were just turning your life around and should be afforded the benefit of the doubt in all situations.
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Re: Operator in Eden Prairie

Postby Ghost on Sun Dec 16, 2018 6:56 am

Holland&Holland wrote:
Grayskies wrote:
jshuberg wrote:Keep in mind though that being a willing participant in an argument, including one where insults are thrown around does not put your reluctant participant status in jeopardy. One has to be a willing participant in the violence before a claim of self defense is forfeit. Threatening someone verbally, or intentionally trying to get the other party to escalate are no-nos. Arguing with someone in and of itself is a perfectly fine, legal activity.

That seems like a very blurry and near invisible line in today's trigger prone micro-agressionable speech can be violence Leftists.

Not saying I disagree.

Note: The use of the word trigger has nothing to do with guns.


Not blurry at all, let me break it down for you. If you are a law abiding permit holder then you are by definition in the wrong regardless of circumstances. If you are of questionable character with a criminal past, then you were just turning your life around and should be afforded the benefit of the doubt in all situations.

And don’t yell “trigger” in this situation, it may be misheard.
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Re: Operator in Eden Prairie

Postby LePetomane on Sun Dec 16, 2018 7:58 am

Any updates on this guy? I seems that the media did a drive by on this one. Report, stir up crap with the usual suspects (Protect MN) and split. This guy is hosed. Probably a cop wanna be. Except that the bar is a lot higher for this guy that it is for the police. We've seen that in the recent police shootings. The juries buy their testimonies because they think the police are there to protect them. They are there to enforce laws. Period.

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