KCMO files gun safety lawsuit with Everytown Law

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KCMO files gun safety lawsuit with Everytown Law

Postby jdege on Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:54 am

https://www.kshb.com/news/local-news/kcmo-files-gun-safety-lawsuit-with-everytown-law-aimed-at-stemming-violence
KCMO files gun safety lawsuit with Everytown Law aimed at stemming violence
KANSAS CITY, Mo. — Kansas City, Missouri, has filed a public nuisance lawsuit against a Nevada gun manufacturer and multiple firearms dealers in the Kansas City area in connection with a federal gun-trafficking case.

“The headline is important, because a city is filing suit against a gun manufacturer for the first time in 10 years,” Mayor Quinton Lucas said in announcing the lawsuit.

[...]

Samuels was arrested in October 2018 and charged with a range of federal gun trafficking charges, including at least one firearm that was used in the commission of a homicide.

According to federal prosecutors, Samuels purchased 77 firearms between November 2013 and October 2018, including 57 Jimenez Arms pistols, of which at least 47 were transferred to third parties in violation of federal law.


If the dealer knowing sold to a straw purchaser, I could see liability.

I can't see liability for the manufacturer under any circumstances.
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Re: KCMO files gun safety lawsuit with Everytown Law

Postby Ghost on Thu Jan 09, 2020 10:06 am

Was Samuels an FFL? If not then they probably do have a problem.

Court records indicate Jimenez sold Samuels 32 guns from 2013-15 guns, including 11 that were shipped to his home without a background check, at approximately $115. After being allowed to buy at wholesale prices, Samuels would illegally resell the firearms for $200-300.
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Re: KCMO files gun safety lawsuit with Everytown Law

Postby Rip Van Winkle on Thu Jan 09, 2020 10:24 am

jdege wrote:If the dealer knowing sold to a straw purchaser, I could see liability.

I can't see liability for the manufacturer under any circumstances.

Unless Jimenez Arms was selling directly to Samuels. :?
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Re: KCMO files gun safety lawsuit with Everytown Law

Postby jdege on Thu Jan 09, 2020 10:29 am

Rip Van Winkle wrote:
jdege wrote:If the dealer knowing sold to a straw purchaser, I could see liability.

I can't see liability for the manufacturer under any circumstances.

Unless Jimenez Arms was selling directly to Samuels. :?


If Jimenez Arms was selling directly to Samuels, without his having supplied proof that he was an FFL, they'd definitely be liable. But I find it hard to believe they'd be that stupid.
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Re: KCMO files gun safety lawsuit with Everytown Law

Postby Holland&Holland on Thu Jan 09, 2020 1:41 pm

Only the guberment is allowed to conduct straw purchases.
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Re: KCMO files gun safety lawsuit with Everytown Law

Postby LarryFlew on Thu Jan 09, 2020 2:30 pm

Holland&Holland wrote:Only the guberment is allowed to conduct straw purchases.


And to be THAT stupid.
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Re: KCMO files gun safety lawsuit with Everytown Law

Postby Rip Van Winkle on Thu Jan 09, 2020 3:58 pm

Samuels sounds like a real dirtbag.

Court documents released Friday show Samuels had purchased 77 firearms, including 57 Jimenez pistols. Of the 77 firearms he purchased, 47 were transferred to third parties.

Six pistols have been used in other crimes, including the July 5, 2016 homicide of Alvino Crawford.

In September, Samuels sold an American Tactical Imports Omni-Hybrid AR-15 rifle and pistol, along with ammunition, to an informant working in the investigation who was also a convicted felon prohibited from owning such a weapon.

During the purchase, the informant told Samuels he planned to use the weapons to shoot four people later in the day. The informant also asked Samuels how to set a fire and not get caught. Samuels provided advice to the informant.
https://www.kshb.com/news/local-news/kc-fire-captain-charged-with-illegally-selling-guns
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Re: KCMO files gun safety lawsuit with Everytown Law

Postby Ghost on Thu Jan 09, 2020 4:36 pm

Rip Van Winkle wrote:Samuels sounds like a real dirtbag.

Court documents released Friday show Samuels had purchased 77 firearms, including 57 Jimenez pistols. Of the 77 firearms he purchased, 47 were transferred to third parties.

Six pistols have been used in other crimes, including the July 5, 2016 homicide of Alvino Crawford.

In September, Samuels sold an American Tactical Imports Omni-Hybrid AR-15 rifle and pistol, along with ammunition, to an informant working in the investigation who was also a convicted felon prohibited from owning such a weapon.

During the purchase, the informant told Samuels he planned to use the weapons to shoot four people later in the day. The informant also asked Samuels how to set a fire and not get caught. Samuels provided advice to the informant.
https://www.kshb.com/news/local-news/kc-fire-captain-charged-with-illegally-selling-guns

Only four?
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Re: KCMO files gun safety lawsuit with Everytown Law

Postby crbutler on Thu Jan 09, 2020 5:32 pm

I don’t get the lawsuit.

He should be criminally charged.

KC MO is trying to get money from Jimenez and this idiot?

How much are they going to get? $1.50 and a pack of bubble gum?

The legal fees will eat up every dime of compensation if this is remotely accurately described.
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Re: KCMO files gun safety lawsuit with Everytown Law

Postby jdege on Thu Jan 09, 2020 5:54 pm

crbutler wrote:I don’t get the lawsuit.

David Hardy mentioned this:

https://armsandthelaw.com/archives/2020/01/kansas_city_sue.php
(1) How does a city have standing to sue? Does it expect to be awarded damages which belong, if to anyone, to the persons who were damaged? (2) The manufacturer is brought in on the theory that it knew the local seller was not a licensed dealer. As I recall, to ship to a dealer you have to have a copy of his FFL on file, so I doubt that. And if their whole case is based on a false claim that they knew or had reason to know was false, there'd be some risk of Rule 11 sanctions. (3) If they're talking events that go back to 2013, a lot of them are going to be outside the statute of limitations (which in most places is two years). Of course, (4) if the object was to get publicity, win or lose, the above may be unimportant.
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Re: KCMO files gun safety lawsuit with Everytown Law

Postby Rip Van Winkle on Fri Jan 10, 2020 5:59 am

crbutler wrote:I don’t get the lawsuit.

He should be criminally charged.

KC MO is trying to get money from Jimenez and this idiot?

How much are they going to get? $1.50 and a pack of bubble gum?

The legal fees will eat up every dime of compensation if this is remotely accurately described.

The idea isn't to get any compensation, it's to set a legal precedent to sue all gun manufactures into bankruptcy defending themselves against continuous lawsuits.
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Re: KCMO files gun safety lawsuit with Everytown Law

Postby crbutler on Fri Jan 10, 2020 1:30 pm

How so?

If the facts are accurate, then the guy was a pretty odd case involving deliberate malfeasance.

If not, the countersuit will make the guy rich.

In any case, this has no real applicability to manufacturers as a whole, as long as they follow the law.
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Re: KCMO files gun safety lawsuit with Everytown Law

Postby Bearcatrp on Fri Jan 10, 2020 7:32 pm

If the guy purchased the firearms legally, then the guy is guilty of selling firearms to folks who are not allowed to own firearms. Pretty simple to me.
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Re: KCMO files gun safety lawsuit with Everytown Law

Postby Ghost on Fri Jan 10, 2020 7:40 pm

Bearcatrp wrote:If the guy purchased the firearms legally, then the guy is guilty of selling firearms to folks who are not allowed to own firearms. Pretty simple to me.

Seems the method of acquisition may be questionable
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Re: KCMO files gun safety lawsuit with Everytown Law

Postby prushin on Fri Jan 10, 2020 9:04 pm

It was questionable. He appears to have had several straw buyers buying guns for him and then declaring them stolen days after taking possession. I can't see how Jimenez has any liability for a retail customer buying guns from an FFL and then commiting insurance fraud to hand them over to someone else for sale.

You have to wonder why Kansas City didn't go after the insurance companies too. They were financing some of the straw buyers purchases. They were also paying money to someone who obviously couldn't be trusted to "properly store their firearms." One of his accomplices declared 3 firearms stolen on 3 seperate occasions within a month. You've got to think the cops found that one a little fishy.

The reason they are making such a big deal about the informant asking for advice on burning down a house is that the guy they charged is a Fire Captain.
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