1,102 people were denied purchase of gun during first month

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Re: 1,102 people were denied purchase of gun during first month

Postby Holland&Holland on Sat Aug 08, 2020 8:02 am

smurfman wrote:
Holland&Holland wrote:
smurfman wrote:Poor analogy. The law that went into affect on July 1 stated that one must wait 30 days between gun purchases. Period. It did not say "starting July 1 there will be a waiting period of 30 days between purchases." Therefore, the new law covers the 30 days prior to July 1 in addition to the 30 days afterward.

Depending on the wording, a new law can affect actions prior to the enactment date. That has been proven in court. At times new legislation is passed to change this consequence, other times not.


True but the law did not take effect until July 1st.
But, the law stated that one could not make a second firearm purchase within 30 days of the first. Pretty simple to understand and not something that hasn't happened before.

Holland&Holland]How is a gun store supposed to know? [/quote] Maybe by being adults and doing their job by reading the new law.

[quote=""Holland&Holland wrote:
Did you work on the information campaign? Oh, there wasn't one?
I would be willing to bet that those holding an FFL were sent copies of the law before it took affect. It is all the more "information campaign" that is needed. If anything, whatever local trade organization that may represent FFLs and/or gun owners fell asleep at the job by not noticing this and bringing it to the attention of legislators, FFL holders, and gun owners before the law was even passed.

But it was not a law in June. And obviously it was not widely distributed or you would not have over 1000 denials.
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Re: 1,102 people were denied purchase of gun during first month

Postby smurfman on Sat Aug 08, 2020 2:49 pm

But on July 1 the law went into affect stating that one was limited to one handgun purchase in ANY 30 day period starting on July 1. That would mean ANY purchase made less than 30 days prior to July 1 would be included in the new law. Pretty simple to understand and it is not anything new.

That 1000+ is the number of buyers of buyers affected, not FFL holders. Based on what I experience at work, I very much doubt the various dealers did not have at least an inkling that this new law was taking affect and further doubt they were not aware the wording would also make purchases prior to July 1 subject to the new law. If the dealers were not aware of the nuances of the new law, then they should have put on their adult pants and read the law prior to its taking affect. It is there in pretty plain language for all to read. One would also find there appears to be a statute that was in affect up to July 1 that also limited handgun sales to one every 30 days. If this is true, then the dealers quoted seem to be a bit disingenuous or ignorant.
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Re: 1,102 people were denied purchase of gun during first month

Postby Lumpy on Sat Aug 08, 2020 4:33 pm

This thread would be less confusingly titled as "new gun law technicality leads to 1,102 gun purchase denials".
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Re: 1,102 people were denied purchase of gun during first month

Postby Holland&Holland on Sun Aug 09, 2020 8:24 am

smurfman wrote:But on July 1 the law went into affect stating that one was limited to one handgun purchase in ANY 30 day period starting on July 1. That would mean ANY purchase made less than 30 days prior to July 1 would be included in the new law. Pretty simple to understand and it is not anything new.

That 1000+ is the number of buyers of buyers affected, not FFL holders. Based on what I experience at work, I very much doubt the various dealers did not have at least an inkling that this new law was taking affect and further doubt they were not aware the wording would also make purchases prior to July 1 subject to the new law. If the dealers were not aware of the nuances of the new law, then they should have put on their adult pants and read the law prior to its taking affect. It is there in pretty plain language for all to read. One would also find there appears to be a statute that was in affect up to July 1 that also limited handgun sales to one every 30 days. If this is true, then the dealers quoted seem to be a bit disingenuous or ignorant.

So you operate on conjecture and baseless assumptions?
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Re: 1,102 people were denied purchase of gun during first month

Postby ex-LT on Sun Aug 09, 2020 9:41 am

smurfman wrote:But on July 1 the law went into affect stating that one was limited to one handgun purchase in ANY 30 day period starting on July 1. That would mean ANY purchase made less than 30 days prior to July 1 would be included in the new law. Pretty simple to understand and it is not anything new.

Aside from the fact that the Virginia law should be considered unconstitutional, their interpretation is a horrible violation of ex post facto ideals.

As enforced, this law regulates a transaction that was basically unregulated prior to the law taking effect, and applies the law to any transaction that took place within 30 days of the law taking effect. If it was being enforced in the manner of any other law, it wouldn't/shouldn't matter what took place in the days preceding the law's enactment, and the 30 day "window" should have started the day the law went into effect, NOT 30 days prior.
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Re: 1,102 people were denied purchase of gun during first month

Postby Ghost on Sun Aug 09, 2020 2:15 pm

ex-LT wrote:
smurfman wrote:But on July 1 the law went into affect stating that one was limited to one handgun purchase in ANY 30 day period starting on July 1. That would mean ANY purchase made less than 30 days prior to July 1 would be included in the new law. Pretty simple to understand and it is not anything new.

Aside from the fact that the Virginia law should be considered unconstitutional, their interpretation is a horrible violation of ex post facto ideals.

As enforced, this law regulates a transaction that was basically unregulated prior to the law taking effect, and applies the law to any transaction that took place within 30 days of the law taking effect. If it was being enforced in the manner of any other law, it wouldn't/shouldn't matter what took place in the days preceding the law's enactment, and the 30 day "window" should have started the day the law went into effect, NOT 30 days prior.

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Re: 1,102 people were denied purchase of gun during first month

Postby Holland&Holland on Sun Aug 09, 2020 2:57 pm

Ghost wrote:
ex-LT wrote:
smurfman wrote:But on July 1 the law went into affect stating that one was limited to one handgun purchase in ANY 30 day period starting on July 1. That would mean ANY purchase made less than 30 days prior to July 1 would be included in the new law. Pretty simple to understand and it is not anything new.

Aside from the fact that the Virginia law should be considered unconstitutional, their interpretation is a horrible violation of ex post facto ideals.

As enforced, this law regulates a transaction that was basically unregulated prior to the law taking effect, and applies the law to any transaction that took place within 30 days of the law taking effect. If it was being enforced in the manner of any other law, it wouldn't/shouldn't matter what took place in the days preceding the law's enactment, and the 30 day "window" should have started the day the law went into effect, NOT 30 days prior.

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This.
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Re: 1,102 people were denied purchase of gun during first month

Postby smurfman on Sun Aug 09, 2020 3:19 pm

Holland&Holland wrote:
smurfman wrote:But on July 1 the law went into affect stating that one was limited to one handgun purchase in ANY 30 day period starting on July 1. That would mean ANY purchase made less than 30 days prior to July 1 would be included in the new law. Pretty simple to understand and it is not anything new.

That 1000+ is the number of buyers of buyers affected, not FFL holders. Based on what I experience at work, I very much doubt the various dealers did not have at least an inkling that this new law was taking affect and further doubt they were not aware the wording would also make purchases prior to July 1 subject to the new law. If the dealers were not aware of the nuances of the new law, then they should have put on their adult pants and read the law prior to its taking affect. It is there in pretty plain language for all to read. One would also find there appears to be a statute that was in affect up to July 1 that also limited handgun sales to one every 30 days. If this is true, then the dealers quoted seem to be a bit disingenuous or ignorant.

So you operate on conjecture and baseless assumptions?


No, unlike you I actually looked up the Code in question. It lessens the likelihood of making snarky comments and making a fool of oneself.

ex-LT wrote:
smurfman wrote:But on July 1 the law went into affect stating that one was limited to one handgun purchase in ANY 30 day period starting on July 1. That would mean ANY purchase made less than 30 days prior to July 1 would be included in the new law. Pretty simple to understand and it is not anything new.

Aside from the fact that the Virginia law should be considered unconstitutional, their interpretation is a horrible violation of ex post facto ideals.

As enforced, this law regulates a transaction that was basically unregulated prior to the law taking effect, and applies the law to any transaction that took place within 30 days of the law taking effect. If it was being enforced in the manner of any other law, it wouldn't/shouldn't matter what took place in the days preceding the law's enactment, and the 30 day "window" should have started the day the law went into effect, NOT 30 days prior.


Unfortunately, what is and what should be is not the same. There have been other laws similar to this which have been passed and upheld. The most obvious one is the law regarding firearm possession by those with even a domestic violence charge far in their past. These are the reasons one needs to read proposed legislation closely with a suspicious mind and question any possible discrepancy.
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Re: 1,102 people were denied purchase of gun during first month

Postby Holland&Holland on Sun Aug 09, 2020 4:17 pm

I’m the snarky one?
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