Minneapolis police shooting - here we go again

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Re: Minneapolis police shooting - here we go again

Postby Erud on Wed Feb 09, 2022 7:26 am

Jackpine Savage wrote:
TSKNIGHT wrote:
Confirmation of my thoughts on this being a fishing expedition. LE had no idea if their suspect was at any one of the apartments. They were hoping to get lucky.
Definitely have a problem with the search warrants being allowed at all in this instance, No-knock or not.


I think I'm starting to understand why the metro is what it is. Trying to get a murderer off the street is considered a fishing expedition.


Which part of what you quoted do you disagree with?
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Minneapolis police shooting - here we go again

Postby sprigfan on Wed Feb 09, 2022 9:29 am

You can support the police and also demand better. It does not have to be one or the other.

I would like to know specifically why this was a no-knock warrant. Did they even attempt to watch the place for a while to see if they could nab the suspect outside? As has been stated multiple times on this thread already, this could happen to any one of us. No-knock warrants should be a last resort.
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Re: Minneapolis police shooting - here we go again

Postby Jackpine Savage on Wed Feb 09, 2022 1:51 pm

Erud wrote:
Jackpine Savage wrote:
TSKNIGHT wrote:
Confirmation of my thoughts on this being a fishing expedition. LE had no idea if their suspect was at any one of the apartments. They were hoping to get lucky.
Definitely have a problem with the search warrants being allowed at all in this instance, No-knock or not.


I think I'm starting to understand why the metro is what it is. Trying to get a murderer off the street is considered a fishing expedition.


Which part of what you quoted do you disagree with?


TSKNIGHT wrote:Definitely have a problem with the search warrants being allowed at all in this instance, No-knock or not.


The cops are trying to track down a murderer. They know he lives at this address. They have a description of the get away vehicle, and going through video surveillance they tracked it to this address. They find out he frequents three different apartments at this address. They found items at this address that were related to the murder. Search warrants weren't at all justified? WTF!

Here's some light reading on the overall situation: https://heavy.com/news/mekhi-speed/ Some nice photos. Some indication that Speedy was involved in gang activity.

I'm still withholding judgement on the no-knock too. I think the drug no-knocks for preserving evidence were BS. And they damn well better have the right address. But I think no-knocks probably have a place to protect cops and the general public.

No knock, innocent? killed, cops fault.
Knock on door, gun fight ensues, stray bullet kills innocent, cops fault.
Take down in a public place, gun fight ensues, stray bullet kills innocent, cops fault.

Never the fault of the thug culture.

If this keeps up they are going to run out of cops.
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Re: Minneapolis police shooting - here we go again

Postby Erud on Wed Feb 09, 2022 2:29 pm

They are already running out of cops, for a lot of reasons. Innocent people getting killed by police has always been viewed negatively, that's certainly nothing new. I think most would agree that there are occasionally situations involving police where loss of innocent life was unavoidable. Those situations usually result from violent escalation by the criminal; gunfight breaks out in public place, police respond, someone gets hit by a stray bullet. Something like that would normally be viewed (by most) as a tragedy, and the police viewed as heroes protecting the public. When an innocent person is killed by police as a direct result of a police-initiated action, people get upset. When that action appears to have been poorly planned, poorly executed, and possibly covered-up by police and mayor, people get really upset.

What would your recommendation be to those people? Suck it up? Don't associate with or live in the same area as criminals? Tell them "Play stupid games, win stupid prizes"? Let them know that sometimes the police just don't gather enough info, so they need to serve no-knock warrants on 3 separate apartments at the same time (because they don't know where the guy they are looking for is, but he might be in one of those 3) and innocent bystanders might get killed as a result? That's just the way it goes? Were there any other options? Could better info have been collected before hand to maybe narrow down the possibilities a little? Was there no way to know that he wasn't actually there? Would a knock-first warrant have prevented this?

Think of it a different way. Best-case scenario; if the kid they were looking for had been in one of those 3 apartments, they still would've have needlessly served no-knock warrants on the other two. Doesn't that seem a little sloppy? Whether you are innocent or guilty, there aren't very many situations in life that would put you in more danger than being present when police serve one of these. 3 different apartments full of unknown people were put in pretty serious danger over this, and the kid wasn't even there. Let's say your neighbor kills someone and the police are looking for him. They know where he lives, but they also know that he occasionally hangs out and drinks beer with you and one of your other neighbors. Get no-knock warrants for all 3 of your houses and figure it out afterwards?
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Re: Minneapolis police shooting - here we go again

Postby TSKNIGHT on Wed Feb 09, 2022 4:41 pm

Jackpine Savage wrote:
TSKNIGHT wrote:
Confirmation of my thoughts on this being a fishing expedition. LE had no idea if their suspect was at any one of the apartments. They were hoping to get lucky.
Definitely have a problem with the search warrants being allowed at all in this instance, No-knock or not.



TSKNIGHT wrote:Definitely have a problem with the search warrants being allowed at all in this instance, No-knock or not.


The cops are trying to track down a murderer. They know he lives at this address.They have a description of the get away vehicle, and going through video surveillance they tracked it to this address. They find out he frequents three different apartments at this address. They found items at this address that were related to the murder. Search warrants weren't at all justified? WTF!

Here's some light reading on the overall situation: https://heavy.com/news/mekhi-speed/ Some nice photos. Some indication that Speedy was involved in gang activity.

I'm still withholding judgement on the no-knock too. I think the drug no-knocks for preserving evidence were BS. And they damn well better have the right address. But I think no-knocks probably have a place to protect cops and the general public.

No knock, innocent? killed, cops fault.
Knock on door, gun fight ensues, stray bullet kills innocent, cops fault.
Take down in a public place, gun fight ensues, stray bullet kills innocent, cops fault.

Never the fault of the thug culture.

If this keeps up they are going to run out of cops.
[/quote]

Have read the Heavy article. Doesn't change my opinion that the operation was sloppy in planning and execution. The results of that sloppiness is an innocent person died.
Search warrants need to have specific information on who/what/when/where/why/how they are to be served and clear reasoning behind the request. The fact that the request was for three separate apartments looking for the same person/evidence tells me that LE was on a fishing expedition and counting on luck to fall in their favor.
As has been said, Luck is a fickle mistress.
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Re: Minneapolis police shooting - here we go again

Postby TSKNIGHT on Wed Feb 09, 2022 4:42 pm

Erud wrote:They are already running out of cops, for a lot of reasons. Innocent people getting killed by police has always been viewed negatively, that's certainly nothing new. I think most would agree that there are occasionally situations involving police where loss of innocent life was unavoidable. Those situations usually result from violent escalation by the criminal; gunfight breaks out in public place, police respond, someone gets hit by a stray bullet. Something like that would normally be viewed (by most) as a tragedy, and the police viewed as heroes protecting the public. When an innocent person is killed by police as a direct result of a police-initiated action, people get upset. When that action appears to have been poorly planned, poorly executed, and possibly covered-up by police and mayor, people get really upset.

What would your recommendation be to those people? Suck it up? Don't associate with or live in the same area as criminals? Tell them "Play stupid games, win stupid prizes"? Let them know that sometimes the police just don't gather enough info, so they need to serve no-knock warrants on 3 separate apartments at the same time (because they don't know where the guy they are looking for is, but he might be in one of those 3) and innocent bystanders might get killed as a result? That's just the way it goes? Were there any other options? Could better info have been collected before hand to maybe narrow down the possibilities a little? Was there no way to know that he wasn't actually there? Would a knock-first warrant have prevented this?

Think of it a different way. Best-case scenario; if the kid they were looking for had been in one of those 3 apartments, they still would've have needlessly served no-knock warrants on the other two. Doesn't that seem a little sloppy? Whether you are innocent or guilty, there aren't very many situations in life that would put you in more danger than being present when police serve one of these. 3 different apartments full of unknown people were put in pretty serious danger over this, and the kid wasn't even there. Let's say your neighbor kills someone and the police are looking for him. They know where he lives, but they also know that he occasionally hangs out and drinks beer with you and one of your other neighbors. Get no-knock warrants for all 3 of your houses and figure it out afterwards?


+1
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Re: Minneapolis police shooting - here we go again

Postby Jackpine Savage on Thu Feb 10, 2022 8:57 am

I still want to hear more about the no knock warrants. I'd like to know why the cops were concerned about those addresses. Looking at the website for Bolero Flats the place looks pretty nice, or at least use too. How was the rent getting paid for those units? Putting aside the no-knock, the search warrants produced evidence in all three apartments. I'm skeptical that there were any innocent people involved. Amir was certainly aware his cousin was on parole for shooting someone. I'm sure he was aware of his social media. I wonder if he rode in Speedy's stolen Mercedes? The car that was involved in at least two armed robberies, a police pursuit and other theft. If you are staying in a place where you know there are violent criminals, should you be surprised when the police show up?

I worked for ten years only two blocks away from what's now the Bolero Flats. I got out of the metro about 25 years ago. I would absolutely recommend that all good and decent people GTFO of there while they can. Unless you are an unrepentant Democrat, then you need to stay there and reap what you've sown. Barring some great political awakening, I expect MPLS/St Paul to look more and more like Detroit every year. Nearby areas can expect to be the subject of the new childhood pastimes of carjacking and armed robbery.
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Re: Minneapolis police shooting - here we go again

Postby Grayskies on Thu Feb 10, 2022 1:34 pm

MN Gun Owners Caucus on TPT Almanac at the Capitol discussing #AmirLocke, no-knock warrants, and …

Length (5:15) https://youtu.be/PFZbQ7u20wg
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Re: Minneapolis police shooting - here we go again

Postby Holland&Holland on Thu Feb 10, 2022 9:57 pm

Grayskies wrote:MN Gun Owners Caucus on TPT Almanac at the Capitol discussing #AmirLocke, no-knock warrants, and …

Length (5:15) https://youtu.be/PFZbQ7u20wg

I have a lot of respect for the caucus but I think they should have stayed out of this one.
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Re: Minneapolis police shooting - here we go again

Postby xd ED on Thu Feb 10, 2022 10:22 pm

Holland&Holland wrote:
I have a lot of respect for the caucus but I think they should have stayed out of this one.


I agree. I do not see this, or previous statements, furthering our mission at the Capitol.
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Re: Minneapolis police shooting - here we go again

Postby jdege on Fri Feb 11, 2022 9:08 am

https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2022/02/the-lonesome-death-of-amir-locke-search-warrants-unsealed.php
Video and photographs connected suspects to three of the apartments to be searched in one downtown Minneapolis building. The surveillance footage depicts Mekhi Speed and other suspects carrying firearms. Evidence from the scene raised fears of .223 caliber rounds that can penetrate body armor. Speed has now been charged with second-degree murder for the killing of Elder in what appears to have been a robbery set-up last month.

“These suspects have been actively involved in numerous crimes throughout the metro area since at least November 2021 to include robberies, firearm incidents, and fleeing police in a motor vehicle,” the warrant application read. “The suspects have been posting videos and photos on Instagram holding several different firearms to include a rifle, possibly the murder weapon.”

Having first signed off on a regular warrant, Judge Cahill subsequently approved the early hours, no-knock raid that the MPD SWAT team conducted. Cahill was persuaded that the no-knock raid would be safer for the police and the public, including other apartment residents.
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Re: Minneapolis police shooting - here we go again

Postby TSKNIGHT on Fri Feb 11, 2022 11:51 am

jdege wrote:https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2022/02/the-lonesome-death-of-amir-locke-search-warrants-unsealed.php
Video and photographs connected suspects to three of the apartments to be searched in one downtown Minneapolis building. The surveillance footage depicts Mekhi Speed and other suspects carrying firearms. Evidence from the scene raised fears of .223 caliber rounds that can penetrate body armor. Speed has now been charged with second-degree murder for the killing of Elder in what appears to have been a robbery set-up last month.

“These suspects have been actively involved in numerous crimes throughout the metro area since at least November 2021 to include robberies, firearm incidents, and fleeing police in a motor vehicle,” the warrant application read. “The suspects have been posting videos and photos on Instagram holding several different firearms to include a rifle, possibly the murder weapon.”

Having first signed off on a regular warrant, Judge Cahill subsequently approved the early hours, no-knock raid that the MPD SWAT team conducted. Cahill was persuaded that the no-knock raid would be safer for the police and the public, including other apartment residents.


This is what I was talking about when I said we are working without critical information.
Knowing this, the no-knock warrants as well as multiple raids make sense. Still looks like a fishing expedition, but with an obvious direction and reasoning.
In light of this information it makes easier to accept that the victim may have been considered law abiding only because he had not been caught before.

It should not have taken this long for transparency IMO. It makes things appear that MPD is covering their backsides whether they are or not. Public opinion is at a point where almost anything is looked at negatively. Big things that make national headlines even more so.
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Re: Minneapolis police shooting - here we go again

Postby Holland&Holland on Fri Feb 11, 2022 12:42 pm

We live in a society where the criminal element is given every possible benefit of the doubt and the cops are given none. That will not end well for you but good luck.
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