The word's getting out about George Floyd

[Lumpy]

This may be old news to many here, but I just today encountered it on a site where the discussion hadn't come up before. Prosecutors, Mpls and the MN government basically "lied by omission" to get a conviction against Floyd's arresting officers, for the express purpose of appeasing the mobs. Apparently the facts are slowly gaining attention:

"The Fall Of Minneapolis"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFPi3EigjFA&t=37s

[Rip Van Winkle]

Of course they lied. This is what happens when no one is held to any account.

[Jackpine Savage]

I did post it a few weeks back. Our little Marky tried to extol the virtues of Minneapolis

http://www.mnguntalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=65955

[crbutler]

It might not be popular here…

I certainly concede that Floyd was a POS human being.

I don’t disagree that Chauvin et al were overcharged.

But Floyd was a person in Chauvin’s control as an officer, and he grossly neglected his duty to keep someone in his control safe. That is an unlawful taking of human life by omission. I have no issue with finding him guilty of homicide over that. My argument is more murder was an overcharge, but manslaughter was more appropriate.

[Jackpine Savage]

It might not be popular here…

I certainly concede that Floyd was a POS human being.

I don’t disagree that Chauvin et al were overcharged.

But Floyd was a person in Chauvin’s control as an officer, and he grossly neglected his duty to keep someone in his control safe. That is an unlawful taking of human life by omission. I have no issue with finding him guilty of homicide over that. My argument is more murder was an overcharge, but manslaughter was more appropriate.

I hope you'll take the time to listen to Andrew Branca's detailed analysis of the body cameras. There's a good chance that Chauvin was never aware that Floyd didn't have a pulse and the prosecutor lied in the closing statement, claiming that that Floyd didn't have a pulse for 3 minutes. It's about 14 minutes long.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hlINUj6WYI

[Jackpine Savage]

I'll add. This whole situation came to a head in a matter of seconds, not minutes. It took place while the officers faced down an angry, unruly, loud crowd. On top of it the EMS response time was exceptionally long and out of the ordinary. The trial was nothing more than a show, and the rest of our judiciary is too chicken **** to correct it.

[Holland&Holland]

It might not be popular here…

I certainly concede that Floyd was a POS human being.

I don’t disagree that Chauvin et al were overcharged.

But Floyd was a person in Chauvin’s control as an officer, and he grossly neglected his duty to keep someone in his control safe. That is an unlawful taking of human life by omission. I have no issue with finding him guilty of homicide over that. My argument is more murder was an overcharge, but manslaughter was more appropriate.

So as a doctor and looking at your own profession, if a doctor makes an error and the patient dies on the table, should the doctor be charged with murder? Should the staff be charged as accomplices? If the patient is saved but it was "close" is that attempted murder?

Not trying to be a smart A$$ here, just saying there is a slippery slope that one must consider and I feel this goes over the line in establishing a precedent that is not good for our society. We have already suffered the consequences of this precedent on its effect on policing and the resulting behavior by bad actors.

I like the old adage, play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

[crbutler]

If a doctor deliberately ignores a patient’s issues and rises to the level of gross negligence, he should (and they have been in the past) be held accountable and there have been manslaughter convictions.

If the staff ignore their own level of training and professional responsibility then they will get in trouble as well.

Like I said, I think they overcharged Chauvin. I would not have charged the rookie officers at all, and the other training guy maybe something with jail (not prison) time- assessory to assault or some such in recognition of his increased experience and that Chauvin was using an unapproved technique (even if it had been approved in the past…) without correcting Chauvin.

I think the whole civil rights stuff is really double jeopardy in that it is the same underlying crime.

You can’t watch the video footage and not think that there was a substantially better way for Chauvin to act. Kneeling on a guy’s neck for multiple minutes and not continually evaluating him strikes me as gross negligence.

That Ellison did what he did is wrong, but it still doesn’t make Chauvin right.

[Jackpine Savage]

You can’t watch the video footage and not think that there was a substantially better way for Chauvin to act. Kneeling on a guy’s neck for multiple minutes and not continually evaluating him strikes me as gross negligence.

I expected better from you. You definitely didn't watch or listen to the video I provided. There was another officer evaluating Floyd and checking his pulse while Chauvin was restraining him. You are relying on video clips that don't show the totality of the situation.

[Markemp]

You can’t watch the video footage and not think that there was a substantially better way for Chauvin to act. Kneeling on a guy’s neck for multiple minutes and not continually evaluating him strikes me as gross negligence.

I expected better from you. You definitely didn't watch or listen to the video I provided. There was another officer evaluating Floyd and checking his pulse while Chauvin was restraining him. You are relying on video clips that don't show the totality of the situation.

The old "Who are you going to believe, me or your lying eyes" argument?

[crbutler]

You can’t watch the video footage and not think that there was a substantially better way for Chauvin to act. Kneeling on a guy’s neck for multiple minutes and not continually evaluating him strikes me as gross negligence.

I expected better from you. You definitely didn't watch or listen to the video I provided. There was another officer evaluating Floyd and checking his pulse while Chauvin was restraining him. You are relying on video clips that don't show the totality of the situation.

I tend to read written items.

Watching YouTube with embedded ads is a bit lower on my agenda.

Frankly, I expect the video quoted will be about as accurate as the clips released at the time.

Your source has to assume that Chauvin’s lawyers were incompetent, that the jury was biased, that the judge was biased, the appellate court was biased, and the media coverage was biased.

I can buy that multiple ones were… but all, and it was only this guy’s superior skill that got it out?

I will see if I have the time to review it this weekend, but with Christmas who knows. If it’s over an hour, it ain’t happening.

I get that allowances usually need to be made in the moment, but IIRC, it was reported at the time that Chauvin told his assistant that Floyd was faking when they said they could not feel a pulse, and that the MPD delayed paramedics because they would not call the scene secure.

[Jackpine Savage]

The old "Who are you going to believe, me or your lying eyes" argument?

Look, Chauvin was the only one there! This is the video that was played ad nauseum.



Oops, here is the body cam of the officer taking his pulse, out of sight of the above video This video corresponds with Branca's analysis. You can't hear what the officer says after he takes his pulse. The paramedics took over about a minute and a half later.

[Markemp]

The old "Who are you going to believe, me or your lying eyes" argument?

Look, Chauvin was the only one there! This is the video that was played ad nauseum.

You know, maybe not everything in the world is a conspiracy against conservatives. Maybe Chauvin is actually guilty here. You don't cement your conservative bona fides by defending all activities by the police no matter what the situation is.

Sometimes cops can be bad guys, and the system works just fine. Sometimes it doesn't, but this isn't one of those cases.

Floyd did not deserve to die that day.

[Jackpine Savage]

I tend to read written items.

Watching YouTube with embedded ads is a bit lower on my agenda.

Frankly, I expect the video quoted will be about as accurate as the clips released at the time.

Your source has to assume that Chauvin’s lawyers were incompetent, that the jury was biased, that the judge was biased, the appellate court was biased, and the media coverage was biased.

I can buy that multiple ones were… but all, and it was only this guy’s superior skill that got it out?

I will see if I have the time to review it this weekend, but with Christmas who knows. If it’s over an hour, it ain’t happening.

It was 14 minutes long and you can skip the first half.

If there was ever a trial that should have had a change of venue this was it. The Judge and Jury could see the mob every day. They knew that Minneapolis would burn again if Chauvin was found not guilty. The jury had to be concerned about their personal safety especially after the news guy was arrested trying to follow their bus. The appeals process is a strange thing that I don't understand, what can and can't be appealed.

I get that allowances usually need to be made in the moment, but IIRC, it was reported at the time that Chauvin told his assistant that Floyd was faking when they said they could not feel a pulse, and that the MPD delayed paramedics because they would not call the scene secure.

I'm getting concerned. Your memory is totally failing you. Chauvin told Floyd he seemed to be getting enough air 'while' Floyd was talking. He said nothing of the kind while the pulse was being taken. The MPD did not delay paramedics. The fire response was delayed because they went to the wrong location (Cup Foods). The paramedics packed up Floyd without immediately starting resuscitation because 'they' thought the scene was unsafe.

I'm assuming that you haven't watched the Fall of Minneapolis documentary because that is an hour and 45 minutes long. I get it, you're a Doctor and you sound like a busy guy. But when you join the discussion and make silly statements, please don't take affront because you get called out on it. I do think you're one of the good guys, unlike Marky.

Watching the documentary would refresh your memory and clear up some of your misconceptions. It shows the deceptive video angle of Chauvin's 'knee on the neck' and Chief Arradondo's testimony on the stand that Chauvin's knee was not on Floyd's neck but rather on his shoulder, based on different angle from a body cam. You would see that Judge Cahill did not allow some of the video to be presented. You would learn that the restraint technique that Chauvin used was in the training manual, that was also suppressed by Cahill, and lied about by Arradondo.

This is all the time I'm going to waste enlightening you and refreshing your memory. I've got Christmas things to do!

Merry Christmas!

[Jackpine Savage]

You know, maybe not everything in the world is a conspiracy against conservatives. Maybe Chauvin is actually guilty here. You don't cement your conservative bona fides by defending all activities by the police no matter what the situation is.

Sometimes cops can be bad guys, and the system works just fine. Sometimes it doesn't, but this isn't one of those cases.

Floyd did not deserve to die that day.

Everyone that disagrees with the Left is raaacist, and anything not reported by the New York TImes is a 'conspiracy'. You're going to have to come up with some different words because those don't mean anything anymore.

Floyd had underlying health conditions, ingested a large amount of drugs, and resisted arrest. That is what caused his death. Perhaps if the paramedics had arrived earlier they 'may' have been able to resuscitate, no one knows.