What kind and size of gun should I carry??

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What kind and size of gun should I carry??

Postby Seismic Sam on Sun Feb 07, 2010 12:40 pm

This is probably one of the first questions that is asked when anybody (male or female) asks when they think about getting their carry permit, and the simple answer is NOBODY really has a clue. Not me, not your instructor, and most DEFINITELY not your husband or boyfriend. A lot of men are under the impression that because they are bigger than you are, they can handle a bigger gun than you can, so a lot of them will think "the little lady" needs a "little gun", and this is just plaint stupid, sexist, patronizing, and worst of all, potentially dangerous if you get stuck with a small .380 (don't worry about what that is exactly, other than it's a small gun that shoots a small bullet without a lot of punch...) when you are perfectly capable of shooting a 357 Magnum (lot more punch) or a 45 Automatic (also more punch).

I learned my lesson at one of Terri ****** Introductory Gun Courses for women who had NEVER shot a gun before serving as a range officer. I brought a couple of 22's. a .380, a 9mm, and figured that would be good enough, and I turned out to be COMPLETELY wrong. Things started out calmy enough with the ladies shooting the 22's and getting familiar with handguns, and then the .380's came out, and then the 9mm's, and they a couple of S&W 40's came out, and an hour later some of the ladies were shooting 45 caliber semi-automatic pistols, and having literally a BLAST doing it. It was literally like watching kids in a candy store. About this time my preconceptions about women not being able to shoot large caliber handguns straight out of the chute were pretty much destroyed, so I decided to go with the flow and asked a few of the ladies if they wanted to try something with a little more punch than a 45. There were about 4 or 5 that did, so i went back to my truck and got out the guns I like to shoot, and for the record, I have the reputation of liking to shoot the biggest and most heavily recoiling guns on the planet. The fiest gun I hauled out was a 10mm, which has 50% more punch than a 45 Automatic, and 4 of the women LOVED shooting this thing, and turned out to be recoil junkies just like me. Then they asked for more, and that day all I had left was my carry gun, which is a very rare piece in 50 caliber. So I hauled that out of my waistband, and the ladies had a ball with that one too, and I went home that night temporarily defenseless because they had used up every round of ammo I had. So, women who have NEVER shot a handgun before can traverse the entire range of calibers starting with .22's and winding up with a 50 caliber (largest allowable by law) IN A SINGLE DAY. Since then I have brought along my Smith & Wesson 500, which is literally the most powerful handgun on the planet right now, and I have had several women in each class who shot it and actually got quite a thrill out of doing it. There was one young lady who was about the age of my oldest daughter (mid 20's), and probably 5'6" tall and 125 pounds at most. She loved shooting the Smith, and went through two full cylinders of ammo (10 shots), and she was blowing the snot of the bullseye while she was doing it. And let's be quite clear about this: This is a handgun that a LOT of men either don't want to or are scared to try to shoot. At the last class I had about 4 women shooting this monster, and I gave each one of them an empty case to take back to their significant other, so they could say: Oh honey, look what I shot today!! :( :o :shock: with the express intention of shocking the hell (and perhaps slightly intimidating) the man of the house. :P :D

One other anecdote from one of Ttousi's classes, who had a woman who looked to me to be a complete rookie and was having a VERY hard time shooting a Ruger semi-automatic 9mm. It was clear she just wasn't able to handle that gun at all, and I put it down to inexperience. Stupid me!! After she ditched the Ruger, she hauled out her husband's 4" long barrel nickled 44 MAGNUM revolver, (the Dirty Harry gun...) and proceeded to blow the middle of the target to bits. In this case, she just wasn't used to a semi-automatic, and it made her feel very uncomfortable to shoot it, despite the fact that its recoil was small compared to the 44 mag she was shooting.

So, I've seen it with my own eyes several times, and some women are capable of shooting ANY handgun a man can. There is NO way of knowing before hand what YOU are capable of shooting, and the only way to find out is to try. Along those lines, the best thing is probably go up to Bill's North and get in touch with instructor Theresa ******, and try renting several guns to see what you can shoot and what you like shooting. Once again, DO NOT LISTEN to husbands, boyfriends, or any other male "experts", because you simply won't know what you'er comfortable with until you try it.

As far as to WHY you want to find out what your "caliber limit" is, the answer is very simple: If you are going to carry a handgun for self defense, you want to carry the largest/most powerful caliber that you are comfortable with as far as carrying AND shooting, and most importantly, shooting ACCURATELY. Along those lines, I actually have a REVERSE phobia about small, easily concealable handguns, and I simply WON'T shoot any handgun where I cannot wrap all of my fingers around the grip, and due to the size of my hands that disqualifies a lot of small guns. I just cannot get used to the idea of shooting a handgun while my pinky finger is waving around in the breeze with nothing to hang onto, so I am sure I would be a lousy shot with a small gun, despite my experience and tolerance for any level of recoil. You simply cannot shoot accurately unless you are comfortable with the gun and its recoil.

As one final note on learning more about handguns, various cartridges, and carrying a gun, the best instructional book currently on the market is written by Firearms instructor Mike Martin who lives right here in the TC Metro, and is copiously illustrated with lots of pictures, so you can SEE exactly what the text is talking about. This book is sold at both Bill's shops (Circle Pines - North, and Robbinsdale - South.) You can read posts on this section of the board until you are blue in the face and thoroughly confused, but there is no other document in a stand alone format that will teach you more than Mike's book.

http://www.amazon.com/Minnesota-Permit-Carry-Firearm-Fundamentals/dp/1606438093
Last edited by Bender on Sun Feb 07, 2010 5:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Personal info redacted
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Re: What kind and size of gun should I carry??

Postby gman1868 on Sun Feb 07, 2010 3:17 pm

What is the name of the book?

Nevermind I see the link :)
Last edited by gman1868 on Sun Feb 07, 2010 4:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What kind and size of gun should I carry??

Postby mmcnx2 on Sun Feb 07, 2010 4:16 pm

I have to admit I had the same(obviously wrong) stereotype. My wife wanted a carry gun and I got her to try a 25, 380 and a bunch of plastic guns. In the end she did not like anything I thought was right for her, however she tried an EMP in 9mm and bought it the same day. She can shoot it very accurately, she says it carries comfortably for her and she likes the platform.

I knew she was a great gal before I married her 25+ years ago but then to find out she is a 1911 nut, well what could be better.

My daughter likes to shoot a Para 16-40 so I guess the 1911 gene does pass to your kids.
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Re: What kind and size of gun should I carry??

Postby Ironbear on Sun Feb 07, 2010 5:07 pm

Seismic Sam wrote:I learned my lesson at one of Terri Williams' Introductory Gun Courses for women who had NEVER shot a gun before serving as a range officer.


Terri's classes will certainly disabuse you of any misconceptions of women and guns. When I was helping out, one of the range officers pulled out a short barreled .44 magnum. One of the women ran a cylinder full through it. She stepped back, and said, "That was FUN! It makes me feel... like... like... like a WOMAN!" :rotf: I encountered one young lady, probably mid-twenties, who took a particular liking to my Springfield M1A. She would have shot up all my ammo if I would have let her (she even tried offhand too). Last year, I watched one lady fire one of the black powder rifles. She was literally hopping up and down from excitement afterwords. When my wife was taking it, she came and handed me a piece of paper. I asked her what is was, and she said that she had written down her favorites... "Glock 17" and "AR-15"
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Re: What kind and size of gun should I carry??

Postby 1911fan on Sun Feb 07, 2010 5:28 pm

My wife carries, daily. has for a long time, and her progression was from a larger for its caliber Mauser HsC in .380, to a Inglis Hi power in 9mm to a Lightweigh commander 1911a1 in .45 acp.

My daughter tried 9mm for a while, and returned to para ord P13-45 limited. Her favorite gun is a blackhawk in .45 long colt, which when loaded to her levels is a real thumper.
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Re: What kind and size of gun should I carry??

Postby White Horseradish on Sun Feb 07, 2010 5:33 pm

The quality of advice does, indeed, vary...
Here are a couple more anecdotes:

When I took my permit class there was only one woman in it. She had a lightweight alloy .357 snubby she had never shot before. She bought it on the advice of someone "because it is a nice light gun". The shooting qual for the class was 50 rounds. The web of her hand was quite literally blue afterwards. She still had most excellent results on the target, but the pain was clearly too much. Once she understood that not all guns are like that she wanted to know how she could trade the snubby in on something else. I wouldn't want to be the guy that advised her to buy it. She had a kind of a determined look to her...

My wife started off not wanting to shoot anything but a .38, but now 1911 is her favorite platform to shoot. She considers it too big to carry, though. It's hard for her to hide something that size.

My mom was very problematic. First of all, she had trouble with slides and stiff triggers. To fix this she got a finger exerciser. Helps her when people annoy her at work, too. Then, we tried all manner of guns and nothing worked until she tried a full-size XD and all of a sudden it clicked. Go figure...
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Re: What kind and size of gun should I carry??

Postby Lady T on Sun Feb 07, 2010 9:35 pm

Hey guys, Thanks for the great posts of your experiences! So great to hear all the wonderful stories.
The one thing I've learned is when it comes to many women & men, it's not so much the caliber of the gun, but the "hand fit" of the gun. If someone is shooting a 9mm who's grip is too big for their hand, it's going to kick quite a bit more than a 45 that fits their hand!
It usually doesn't matter what their height or weight is, I've seen many smaller women with small hands, but longer fingers handle just about any gun IF they are introduced the right way.

Keep up the great work guys :D

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Re: What kind and size of gun should I carry??

Postby cmj685 on Mon Feb 08, 2010 5:37 am

Video of a woman shooting a 500 here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZUHeYCM5WuQ
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Re: What kind and size of gun should I carry??

Postby ScatterGun4015 on Mon Feb 08, 2010 6:40 am

cmj685 wrote:Video of a woman shooting a 500 here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZUHeYCM5WuQ


Not bad. If she would have leaned into her shot, I think she wouldn't have had any problems with the recoil
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Re: What kind and size of gun should I carry??

Postby Lady T on Mon Feb 08, 2010 10:44 am

OK cmj685,
I have a question for you:
After all the wonderful posts of: Sam, mmcnx2, Ironbear, 1911Fan & White Horseradish that probably would/could give ladies out there more convidence of trying a larger caliber gun.
What did you think you would accomplish by posting a video that show a lady improperly being instructed and improperly firing a 500?

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Re: What kind and size of gun should I carry??

Postby plblark on Mon Feb 08, 2010 10:54 am

I'll bite because I've met CMJ and I wondered the same thing. Here's what I think:
Ladies: seek competent instruction. If you're uncomfortable, learn the basics / fundamentals and work up to it. Don't limit yourself but don't jump in at the deep end either.

Sometimes, know it alls / guys can be stupid jerks and while they may be stupid enough to think it's funny to give a new shooter (could be ANY new shooter) a big boomer without any experience or instruction, that's not the safe, responsible, ethical way to go.

I LOVE working with a few new shooters at the same time. Gives each shooter a break in between, they get to observe each other, they don't feel so alone or inexperienced. It's also a good way to ramp up. Start with a blue gun for grip, stance, etc... try an airsoft (it's COLD outside at OGC, let's cover this inside and then go outside for actual firearms), .2 revolver, .38 spcl heavy revolver (DA vs SA), move up to 9mm, up to .38 spcl J-Frame, .45 ACP, .357 Mag

I try to do this movement at the student's pace and after watching how they're controlling / handling / enjoying the current step. It's all about Safety, Competence, and Confidence.

The GREAT part about a group in this is that what one student doesn't think they want to try, they can take a break and watch the others... Sometimes the fun is contagious or they get to see someone else do it and decide they can too. Don't push really, just offer an opportunity and an example of someone in similar shoes..
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Re: What kind and size of gun should I carry??

Postby RobD on Mon Feb 08, 2010 11:03 am

plblark wrote:Ladies: seek competent instruction.


I will echo this. Thanks for adding that important adjective Paul. Just because your boyfriend/husband/dog's uncle's dentist say "I'll show you how to shoot that thing" does not mean that it is going to be accurate, safe, or competent. There is a lot more to shooting than pulling a trigger, and not everyone who handles a gun has invested the time it takes to learn and practice shooting properly.

Women on Targetis a great chance to try out different guns, get top quality training, at a rock bottom price, and Mr. Know it All isn't even allowed to watch. :)
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Re: What kind and size of gun should I carry??

Postby plblark on Mon Feb 08, 2010 11:08 am

Thanks Rob.

I'd also like to add that this is not an "I get paid for this" bias. Knowing several good instructors, I would send my wife elsewhere for instruction without that relationship element involved. I know when I try to "tell" my wife something it often doesn't come across or get received the same as when some stranger or other friend says the EXACT same thing.

There's also this thing called different presentation and different aproaches. Having someone without that relationship dynamic involved means they take the student as a blank slate and get to focus on just the one thing at a time.
Last edited by plblark on Mon Feb 08, 2010 11:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What kind and size of gun should I carry??

Postby Seismic Sam on Mon Feb 08, 2010 11:09 am

Lady T beat me to it, but I'll add my $.02 anyway. yes, this woman was NOT properly informed by the instructor on how to shoot a 500, and for all of you who see this video, do NOT be intimidated by what you're looking at, because this is not the right way to do it.

Step #1 is to put on some good shooting gloves, and I have a spare pair or two in my range bag.

Step #2 is to put one foot well behind the other (as opposed to both feet together, which is the problem in the video), and lean well forward and tense up your legs and shoulders.

Step #3 is to get a death grip with both hands (one over the other) and point the gun at the target, and bring your elbows down and lock them.

Step #4 is to pull the trigger, and if you are leaning forward and set properly, the recoil will be taken up by your entire upper body weight, and you may go backward a couple of inches.

From a VERY long time ago (and several times since then) I have seen various dipwad boyfriends take their uninitiated girfriend out to the range and hand them a 357 Snubby with full power defense loads, and laugh like hell after the girlfriend takes one shot and gets her nerves and hand beat up. I really would like to slap some of these idiots upside the head and scream at them: "Great idea blockhead, scare the crap out of your girlfriend so she will NEVER want to shooting with you or anybody else again!!" If I see this in the future, I am definitely going to haul out the Smith 500 with the REALLY HOT loads, and challenge the jerkwad boyfriend to put up or shut up.
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Re: What kind and size of gun should I carry??

Postby RobD on Mon Feb 08, 2010 11:15 am

plblark wrote:Thanks Rob.

I'd also like to add that this is not an "I get paid for this" bias. Knowing several good instructors, I would send my wife elsewhere for instruction without that relationship element involved. I know when I try to "tell" my wife something it often doesn't come across or get received the same as when some stranger or other friend says the EXACT same thing.


Another great point. I'l lucky where my wife is teachable, but I too, also hold back from over-critisizing because I don't want to be too critical of her on things. I don't want it to be a long quiet ride home.

Objective, non-biased eyes can make a big difference.
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