Registering an NFA weapon [inc Suppressors] via trust

[28_days]

Regarding 4H, in your example you would engrave the following?
J.M. Doe NFA Trust -- whatever the trust is named
City, Stay

?

Does the trust name NEED to include parts of your name, or is that just common? Can I use my initials?

[jshuberg]

Lots of good questions and comments, both here and via PMs! I'll call BATFE tomorrow before answering those that I don't know the answers to, and update the original post.

I'm happy you guys think the write up is informative, it took awhile to dig up my notes and type it all up. Thanks for letting me know it was worth the effort

[Hmac]

Rulemaking changes in NFA Trusts....see this post viewtopic.php?f=52&t=37666

[JustPlainT]

Does the trust name NEED to include parts of your name, or is that just common?

No. You could have the trust name be "The Zombie Apocalypse Trust" and it would be legally valid.

Names are just common.

However, see potential for changes regarding trusts as noted before me.

[jshuberg]

Well, I finally got through to Jason Frushour at the BATFE NFA branch. I asked him what the process is for a resident of MN purchasing a suppressor in WI, to store and use in WI. We discussed a few different scenarios, but he doesn't think that it's currently possible to do this. I think I'm going to take it to the next step and write the NFA branch and get a determination letter on this.

The reason I think it should be possible, is that if a person who lived in WI purchased a suppressor, and then moved to MN, he could continue to own his suppressor provided he keep in in WI (or any other state where suppressors are legal). Since it is possible to own a suppressor physically located in another state, I believe there should then also be a way to purchase a suppressor and physically keep it in another state. At least I think it's worth pursuing a little further.

EDIT

I was questioned why I would post this here. It's a question a few people have asked me recently after posting the big write up about purchasing NFA items via trust. I figured I'd post the answer that BATFE gave me for those who are also interested.

[MNGunGuy]

Does anyone here have a class 3 dealer they've used in the past for transfers they would recommend?

[Snowgun]

Well, I finally got through to Jason Frushour at the BATFE NFA branch. I asked him what the process is for a resident of MN purchasing a suppressor in WI, to store and use in WI. We discussed a few different scenarios, but he doesn't think that it's currently possible to do this. I think I'm going to take it to the next step and write the NFA branch and get a determination letter on this.

The reason I think it should be possible, is that if a person who lived in WI purchased a suppressor, and then moved to MN, he could continue to own his suppressor provided he keep in in WI (or any other state where suppressors are legal). Since it is possible to own a suppressor physically located in another state, I believe there should then also be a way to purchase a suppressor and physically keep it in another state. At least I think it's worth pursuing a little further.

EDIT

I was questioned why I would post this here. It's a question a few people have asked me recently after posting the big write up about purchasing NFA items via trust. I figured I'd post the answer that BATFE gave me for those who are also interested.

This is the exact question I wanted to ask. If the other two people in my trust live in north dakota for instance, and the suppressor will be used and stored in ND, can I purchase it as a resident of MN? Or do I have to have one of my other "trust" members purchase the equipment?

[jshuberg]

My most recent Form 1 Application was kicked back to me. BATFE now also wants you to send them a copy of all your trust documents, including schedule A - assignment of property. A trust must own property to be valid, and BATFE wants to ensure that the trust owns property before approving form 1/4 applications. If there is property owned by the trust that isn't any of BATFE's business, you can redact those lines but they still need to see your schedule A to verify the trust is valid. If the trust currently owns NFA weapons, they must be listed. If you don't send them a copy of your schedule A, they will kick your application back to you. You can simply fax them a copy if they kick your request back, but it will undoubtedly add additional time to the process.

Original thread updated to reflect this.

[jshuberg]

This is the exact question I wanted to ask. If the other two people in my trust live in north dakota for instance, and the suppressor will be used and stored in ND, can I purchase it as a resident of MN? Or do I have to have one of my other "trust" members purchase the equipment?

I haven't asked anyone about this, so I may be wrong, but I don't believe that would work. Your trust is only valid in the state it was created in. You can get temporary approval from BATFE on form 5320.20 to transport the weapon across state lines (only those states where the weapon is legal), but it is still owned by your trust, which exists in one specific state. I don't believe that it would be possible for your trust to purchase NFA weapons that are banned in the state the trust was created in, simply by the fact that some of the trustees live in a different state.

There may be a way for a Minnesotan to legally own a suppressor that is permanently stored in another state where suppressors are legal, but I haven't figured it out yet. I suspect that you would need to have a physical address in that state in order for it to work. And if you went the trust route, the trust would need to have been created in that state.

[Snowgun]

So if the trust was created in ND, everything would be fine, assuming say 2 of the trustees lived there, and only I lived in MN (and everything would be stored/used in ND)

[jshuberg]

Let's say that someone who has a physical address in ND created a trust, and purchased a suppressor for the trust, and then made you a trustee. You would then legally be able to be in possession of the suppressor while you are in ND. You would also be able to take the suppressor into any state that allows them after first getting approval via BATFE form 5320.20. If you bring it into MN, you go bye-bye for a very long time though...

Double check with BATFE before doing any paperwork to ensure it will be approved, but I'm 99.9999% certain that this would be perfectly legal.

[Drizzle]

I shot a full auto MP-5 at Bill's maybe seven years ago. As I read the posts, I see that while it would could be a pre-86 full auto sear in there, it probably wouldn't be a C&R firearm. How would it be legal? Owned by a dealer at post-sample?

Thanks for the update, it was very informative. I very much wish we could have legal suppressors here in MN.

[BC98]

IIRC, dealers can own post-samples for the purpose of LE sales and/or demos.

[Ty179]

My most recent Form 1 Application was kicked back to me. BATFE now also wants you to send them a copy of all your trust documents, including schedule A - assignment of property. A trust must own property to be valid, and BATFE wants to ensure that the trust owns property before approving form 1/4 applications. If there is property owned by the trust that isn't any of BATFE's business, you can redact those lines but they still need to see your schedule A to verify the trust is valid. If the trust currently owns NFA weapons, they must be listed. If you don't send them a copy of your schedule A, they will kick your application back to you. You can simply fax them a copy if they kick your request back, but it will undoubtedly add additional time to the process.

Original thread updated to reflect this.

Thank you for this information!

[Johnny]

Im looking into building an SBR, the first of (hopefully) many. Im exercising the idea of registering with a Trust. What are the benefits of a Trust vs. Individual? and does anybody know of an attorney in the vicinity of Scott County who is familiar with doing such a thing?