Who has filed without a trust

Who has filed without a trust

Postby Bearcatrp on Tue Dec 13, 2016 4:28 pm

Just checking on who has filed for a suppressor without getting a trust? Are restrictions the same as with a trust? Debating which way to do this.
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Re: Who has filed without a trust

Postby Sigfan220 on Tue Dec 13, 2016 5:08 pm

Trust is the ticket for many reasons. I however have not used my trust, I keep everything under my FFL. I would not buy a suppressor (or any NFA item) without a trust.
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Re: Who has filed without a trust

Postby Holland&Holland on Tue Dec 13, 2016 9:36 pm

Sigfan220 wrote:Trust is the ticket for many reasons. I however have not used my trust, I keep everything under my FFL. I would not buy a suppressor (or any NFA item) without a trust.

Why?
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Re: Who has filed without a trust

Postby crbutler on Tue Dec 13, 2016 10:10 pm

Brought a class 3 item several years ago without a trust.

Really, with the new rules its much easier than it was then- you are now notifying local LE instead of getting clearance from them.

As far as what you can buy, no difference between a singular tax stamp and a trust. Local laws are more restrictive than federal for what you can get. MN will not allow destructive devices or short barreled shotguns or non C&R full auto for private citizens. We can get short barreled rifles, silencers, and C&R full auto here, either on a trust or personally tax stamped.

The "old" trusts allowed multiple folks to use it and you didn't need to be fingerprinted or photographed, and you didn't apply to the local CLEO for approval.

The ATF changed things and now you have to fill out the prints and photo for each person when you add to the trust...

That being said, if you buy multiple items within a short time there is supposed to be some way to avoid going through all the paperwork for each one- just once for a certain period of time...what it is, I don't know.
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Re: Who has filed without a trust

Postby Hmac on Wed Dec 14, 2016 5:30 am

I've never bothered with a trust for any NFA item I've built or owned. I have nothing against them, just believe them to be an unnecessary expense and complication.
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Re: Who has filed without a trust

Postby Sigfan220 on Wed Dec 14, 2016 7:19 am

Holland&Holland wrote:
Sigfan220 wrote:Trust is the ticket for many reasons. I however have not used my trust, I keep everything under my FFL. I would not buy a suppressor (or any NFA item) without a trust.

Why?


The main reasons are: you are the only one who may possess it. If you get hurt at the range with your buddy and get taken out in an ambulance your buddy is now illegally possessing you NFA item. The police would gladly take it but good luck getting it back in a timely fashion or in the same condition. The same goes for your family. If anyone in your family knows the code to your safe they would be illegally possessing it when you are not in the house. Same for when you die. You can modify the trust at any time to include more or less people.

I was talking with some people in the industry and they said to do one trustee per item. Then when you want to sell it you sell the trust too and they don't pay the $200 tax because you are not transferring it. You would simply be changing the names on the trust removing yourself and adding the buyer.

The whole possession thing is reason enough in my mind.
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Re: Who has filed without a trust

Postby Squib Joe on Wed Dec 14, 2016 8:07 am

crbutler wrote:MN will not allow destructive devices or short barreled shotguns or non C&R full auto for private citizens.


Not all destructive devices, but some. You can own an M203 or a mortar, but not explosive ammunition for it (what fun is that?).
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Re: Who has filed without a trust

Postby Hmac on Wed Dec 14, 2016 9:33 am

Sigfan220 wrote:
Holland&Holland wrote:
Sigfan220 wrote:Trust is the ticket for many reasons. I however have not used my trust, I keep everything under my FFL. I would not buy a suppressor (or any NFA item) without a trust.

Why?


The main reasons are: you are the only one who may possess it. If you get hurt at the range with your buddy and get taken out in an ambulance your buddy is now illegally possessing you NFA item. The police would gladly take it but good luck getting it back in a timely fashion or in the same condition. The same goes for your family. If anyone in your family knows the code to your safe they would be illegally possessing it when you are not in the house. Same for when you die. You can modify the trust at any time to include more or less people.

I was talking with some people in the industry and they said to do one trustee per item. Then when you want to sell it you sell the trust too and they don't pay the $200 tax because you are not transferring it. You would simply be changing the names on the trust removing yourself and adding the buyer.

The whole possession thing is reason enough in my mind.

I guess everybody perceives it differently. I have ZERO concern about my buddy managing any NFA item of mine if I get injured at the range. Of course, I have almost zero concern about being injured at the range. As to transferring, that $200 per item transfer is just part of my estate...they can afford it. They can buy me a cheaper casket. If they want to sell the stuff, they can just put 16-inch barrels on the rifles thereby making them Title 1 firearms.

I acknowledge that some people think these are important issues for themselves. For me, they aren't.
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Re: Who has filed without a trust

Postby Ghost on Wed Dec 14, 2016 11:38 am

I'd say the benefit of a trust is the ability for family members to use my stuff. Lots of situations that could arise both planned and unplanned.
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Re: Who has filed without a trust

Postby Hmac on Wed Dec 14, 2016 1:49 pm

Ghost wrote:I'd say the benefit of a trust is the ability for family members to use my stuff. Lots of situations that could arise both planned and unplanned.


Definitely a consideration for some people.
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Re: Who has filed without a trust

Postby Bearcatrp on Wed Dec 14, 2016 4:14 pm

Remember LLC's? When I had my own rig, that was the hype. Then they changed the rules and allot of truckers got burned. I figure the government would do the same thing with trusts when the time arises. Just checking information for now. Would hope that bill would pass exempting suppressors from NFA grips. May wait one year after trump gets sworn in to see if it gets passed. On another note, Do you have to purchase the suppressor to be put on hold while the paperwork gets submitted and wait or can you do the paperwork 1st?
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Re: Who has filed without a trust

Postby Ghost on Wed Dec 14, 2016 4:36 pm

You have to buy the suppressor to get the serial number needed for the paperwork.
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Re: Who has filed without a trust

Postby Bitter Bastard on Wed Dec 14, 2016 8:55 pm

I have a few NFA items, all registered to me, not a trust. Before the trust changes, I could kind of see some advantages to it but not enough to go through the hassle of getting a trust. My chief signed (no longer a thing for anyone), so I just went the individual route. NFA transfers free from an estate, so no worries about heirs paying taxes. My friends and I discussed getting a trust to share NFA stuff but ultimately decided against it. It's not like we share non-NFA guns now, so we didn't really see that being a huge advantage. And I'll state with no links to back up my assertions, but those that think their wife is in possession of their NFA stuff because she has the safe combo, well, my opinion is their tin foil hat is on a bit tight. I'd be happy to learn otherwise through actual convictions by the feds for such a thing, but I'm pretty confident that's not really a thing in the real world. On the other hand, if I already had a trust, I wouldn't hesitate to put stuff into it.

I'd counter with why wait a year and see? In that time, your transfers would have cleared and you could be out using your silencer and not still hoping some law might get passed.

Either way, good luck!

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Who has filed without a trust

Postby gun_fan111v2 on Wed Dec 14, 2016 10:34 pm

Ghost wrote:You have to buy the suppressor to get the serial number needed for the paperwork.


You can buy the suppressor any time you want, but you cannot submit the ATF paperwork until your trust is established
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Re: Who has filed without a trust

Postby Hmac on Thu Dec 15, 2016 9:18 am

gun_fan111v2 wrote:
Ghost wrote:You have to buy the suppressor to get the serial number needed for the paperwork.


You can buy the suppressor any time you want, but you cannot submit the ATF paperwork until your trust is established

Unless you file as an individual, no trust. Then it can be submitted immediately, and cheaper.
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