Confused about the AR's

[SabaII]

I am sure you guys have probably seen this. I am looking in to purchasing my first AR type rifle soon and am just very freakin overwhelmed by what is posted in these stupid AR forums. I just want something to punch holes in paper and shoot the occasional exploding target or watermelon. I do want it to be fairly accurate and reliable but I know with what I want to spend I am not going to get a gun that accels in those areas. I also shoot left handed so something with a shell deflector is a bonus as left handed guns tend to cost more. So can someone just give me a straight answer on what a good entry level AR style rifle would be? I am sick of these people saying, well just save up the extra 300, 400, 500, or 600 dollars and get this gun or that gun. Thanks.

Mark.

[farmerj]

Do you want to assemble it or do you want to just buy it.


Cheapest, I would suggest going to http://www.del-ton.com and buying a kit and then aim surplus to buy a lower.

Otherwise, just haunt the classified ads for a used gun.

[JJ]

If you shop carefully, and watch for deals, $600-700 will get you a very decent entry level gun. If you spend that same amount and are willing to build it yourself (even off a complete upper) you can add a whole bunch of options.

[rugersol]

Jest a thought ... if yer left-handed, maybe a Stag? ... I'm sure someone will chime in 'n say they wouldn't scrape up their neighbor's dog-poop outta their yard, with one ... but if I was a lefty, I'd consider it. $920 MSRP ... probly $100+ less. Not the cheapest out there ... but fer left-hand ejection, I don't know that there's a lotta options.

http://www.stagarms.com/product_info.php?cPath=13_21&products_id=215




Ya can usually save $100 'er so gettin' somethin' w/o a carry-handle. That aside, any bigger name ... S&W, DPMS, Bushmaster, Stag s/b fine. Don't expect much fer a trigger. Nice trigger is 'bout $150 - $250 more. Don't know anyone other than JP that sells a lower with a nice trigger installed ... so I'd be very apprehensive 'bout spending $150 - $250 more with the BELIEF that it comes with a nice trigger. And ya can always have one installed, at any point down the road. If ya can get a free-float handguard, in yer budget, I'd do that. I wouldn't go outta my way to get a bunch of rails. If it's already got a sling-stud on the handguard, that makes it a lot easier to put a bipod on it. If I found a nice rifle, but it had an A2 stock, I'd get it! ... every collapsible I've got, I always extend it all the way out, to shoot. I'd get at least one 20rd PMAG ... avoid a high-center shooting off the bench.

[Philo]

am sure you guys have probably seen this. I am looking in to purchasing my first AR type rifle soon and am just very freakin overwhelmed by what is posted in these stupid AR forums. I just want something to punch holes in paper and shoot the occasional exploding target or watermelon.

I know exactly what you mean. There are so many models and options available out there and prices are all over the place. Based on my conversations with shooters, better quality/reliability does not necessarily correlate with higher price. Last thing I wanted to do was spend big bucks and end up with an AR that I didn't like.

My first and only AR is this Bushmaster M4 patrolman's carbine. I chose the one with the removable top handle so I can mount optics at some later time. I was lucky enough to be able to try one on the range and talk to the owner before I bought it. I am very happy with it. I've probably put about 600 rounds through it so far without any problem or malfunction. It is chambered for 5.56/.223. I mostly shoot .223 because it is cheaper. (I can pick up a box of 100 .223 rounds at the local department store for between $29 and $32, depending on whether it is on sale or not.) I bought it online for around $900, including FFL fee.

[Hammer99...]

Ha Ha. You sound like a troll. The truth is there isn’t a bunch of crap out there. Smaller places have their stuff made by bigger places. I had a bunch of parts lying around from builds so I decided to build another rifle with the extras.

So I bought a Surplus and Ammo Arms LLC lower (sheepest thing i could find) . A Yankee Hill upper. And a DPMS ultimate repair kit. The barrel and bolt were a colt post ban hbar 1/7. The bolt carrier was an RRA. The rest was a hodgepodge of parts from who knows where. This Frankenrifle has proven to be just as reliable as my Colt at the range. So if you just want a range gun get an RRA, DPMS, Del-Ton, S&W or whatever or if you want cool step up to a Colt, LMT, DD or BCM or whatever.

You should ask the question does anyone know of an AR the sucks? I’m sure there are some but I don’t know of any.

[Snowgun]

... Don't expect much fer a trigger. Nice trigger is 'bout $150 - $250 more. Don't know anyone other than JP that sells a lower with a nice trigger installed ... so I'd be very apprehensive 'bout spending $150 - $250 more with the BELIEF that it comes with a nice trigger. And ya can always have one installed, at any point down the road. ...

Go to Bills, pay $40-50 bucks, and have Ryan the Gunsmith take the stock trigger of whatever you buy and turn it into awesomeness. Especially for hunting those wascully watermellons!

[SabaII]

Thanks for the replies. I have been looking at a DPMS Oracle but I did not want to just have the info the sales guy gave me. I want info from the guys that have shot these before. I just don't have the knowledge myself on knowing exactly what all is good. I am reading as much as I can just got to a point where I was just overwhelmed with some stuff.

[45Badger]

My younger son is a leftie, so we went the Stag route. A $40 trigger job and it runs like a top.

[SabaII]

So I am on this Del-ton sight. I have the 16" M4 rifle kit selected with the chrome lined 1:9 barrel, and the free float vented hand guard selected as options. Also looking at the Spikes Tactical lower from Aim Surplus. Anything else you guys would recommend? Anything else you think would be a 'must have'?

[mn_smokeater]

heres a Ambi Lower

http://networkedblogs.com/j4c8J

[farmerj]

So I am on this Del-ton sight. I have the 16" M4 rifle kit selected with the chrome lined 1:9 barrel, and the free float vented hand guard selected as options. Also looking at the Spikes Tactical lower from Aim Surplus. Anything else you guys would recommend? Anything else you think would be a 'must have'?

magazines and ammo.

And don't beat the magazines on the back to "seat the ammo".....it just ruins your mags.

[gyrfalcon]

...And don't beat the magazines on the back to "seat the ammo".....it just ruins your mags.

Pfft... Hasn't hurt any of them yet. Dropping them on concrete on the other hand...

[farmerj]

...And don't beat the magazines on the back to "seat the ammo".....it just ruins your mags.

Pfft... Hasn't hurt any of them yet. Dropping them on concrete on the other hand...

Yop, 18 years of watching guys beating them on their helmets and then wondering why they double feed hasn't taught me nothing. It bows the lips out done enough.

[yuppiejr]

So I am on this Del-ton sight. I have the 16" M4 rifle kit selected with the chrome lined 1:9 barrel, and the free float vented hand guard selected as options. Also looking at the Spikes Tactical lower from Aim Surplus. Anything else you guys would recommend? Anything else you think would be a 'must have'?

Honestly, I'm going to point you a slightly different direction for variety and because I think Spikes overall represents the best value in AR stuff out there today:

http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx? ... groupid=55

Specifications:

* Spike's Tactical M4 flat top upper receiver, Machined from a 7075 T6 Mil-Spec Forging with Mil-Spec Type III Hard coat Anodized finish, T-markings, Spike’s logo and M4 feed ramps.
* Barrel is certified MIL-B-11595E CMV, M4 barrel extension, Chrome chamber and bore, 5.56mm Nato chamber, 1:7 Twist, Magnetic particle testing on every barrel, Phosphate finish.
* Government Contour barrel with mid-length gas system.
* Barrel is Phosphate finished under the .750" F marked A2 front sight base.
* The M16 carriers are Chrome lined with a Mil-Spec phosphate finish.
* Forged Mil-Spec carrier key, Chrome lined, attached with Grade 8 hardware and Properly staked.
* HP/MP Tested Bolt, Each extractor is fitted with a Mil-Spec black insert and Mil-Spec Viton o-ring.
* Magpul MOE heat shield lined black handguards.
* A2 Flash Hider.
* Includes ST-T2 buffer.

(Complete $500 midlength gas system 16" upper assembly with BCG, charging handle and heavy buffer)

Pick up a $80 stripped Spikes lower:

http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx? ... groupid=53

Spike's Tactical Multi-Caliber Stripped lower receiver for AR type Rifles. This is the basis for any top quality rifle. Machined from a 7075 T6 Mil-Spec Forging. Mil-Spec Type III Hardcoat Anodized finish with Black Teflon coating. Low Shelf for use with RDIAS.

.. and a Palmetto State Armory MOE build kit:

http://www.palmettostatearmory.com/598.php

Includes Mil-Spec MOE Stock, MOE grip, MOE Trigger Guard, Palmetto State Armory Classic Lower Parts Kit and Mil-Spec buffer tube assembly. Everything you need to finish your stripped lower!

Your choice of Black, Flat Dark Earth, OD Green or Foliage Green.

(to match the midlength MOE handguard on your upper you are also getting the MOE stock, MOE grip and MOE trigger guard, a milspec buffer tube assembly and a quality lower parts kit)

...$750 is going to get you a quality single brand rifle with upgraded furniture, tag on $50 for the FFL transfer ($20) and shipping.

You'll still need backup iron sights or a carry handle and some magazines. I like the stainless steel C-Products 30 round mags with Magpul followers (http://www.palmettostatearmory.com/182.php) or the Magpul PMags (http://www.palmettostatearmory.com/101.php) but there are a million opinions on the best mags to buy...

Iron Sights I'd recommend:

http://www.palmettostatearmory.com/1961.php (Troy rear fixed, A1 style)
http://www.palmettostatearmory.com/507.php (Daniel Defense A1.5 fixed, A1 style)
http://www.palmettostatearmory.com/1947.php (Magpul Gen2 flip ups)