Nikon Coyote Special Scope/ AR-15

[farmerj]

The OP just wants a scope that can get her within one minute of Yote, QUICKLY with MINIMAL THINKING AND CALCULATION (i.e., not mil dot), out to about 400 yrds or so. Hold over reticules are perfect for this (assuming you get them set up correctly). They will even function with a variety of ammo and conditions.

Yop, understanding that the difference of zeroing a rifle at 80 degrees on a nice summers day will totally be irrelevant to the shooter when you go shooting on a day that's 60-70 degrees colder as well as several times dryer in humidity.


Even the army doesn't teach that simplistic view when they teach the ACOG sight.

Not changing anything but temp makes a difference of over a 1/4". That's just putting things into a calculator. Not real world difference.
http://www.handloads.com/calc/

And Nikon wants to charge you $99 PER KNOB? Marketing execs perfect gimmick.

The only thing that will get her that is range time and lots of ammo. Thank you, have a good day. Not a fancy scope.

[Snowgun]

From http://www.handloads.com/calc/ with a vmax 223 and 3200 fps

80 degrees
400yds -24.42

-20 degrees
400yds -27.72

This extreme temp drop of 100 degrees will cause you to be 3 inches low at 400 yds. That is .75 of a MOA.
Is this a noticeable difference? YES.
Does it really matter from a practical coyote hunting perspective? Maybe to No. You still are in a minute of Coyote.
Does this have anything to do with the functionality of a holdover reticule? Only that the reticule is still susceptible to variations in environmental and bullet factors and sight-in that all other reticules are susceptible to.

A reticule system is not a guarantee or replacement for practice or knowing your external ballistics. However, that doesn't mean that one reticule is better than all others for every use, or that a holdover isn't a extremely useful system for some people. I don't think anyone is saying it's a cure all system, but it does have it's uses.

[farmerj]

It's a marketing gimmick.

So minute of coyote. 6" kill zone.

.223 Fiochi 55gr Vmax.
Zero at 28 yards. Dead on. POI=POA.

MPBR is close to 280 yards.

.243 Hornady 58 gr Vmax
Zero at 25 yards

MPBR close to 320 yards.

Simple target with a duplex reticle. Hold it dead on the chest. Your only issue is calling the wind correctly. How much easier do you need it to be.

[Snowgun]

Hey I totally agree, that's a great method. That's how I ran my 7mm before I got a holdover reticule.

The only problem is if you want to take a shot at say, 180, or 400, you have to mess with holding off. The 180 yd shot is especially tricky, because people are not used to holding LOW.

Again, it all depends on how you roll and what you are comfortable with. I personally don't like the circle crap holdover that this nikon does, I prefer a series of subtle intersecting lines, since they bring my eye to the aiming point easier, especially during windy or running shots.

[bman940]

Guy's I'm not going to question your shooting choice's. I'm just trying to help someone out who has a set up that they have question's about. I don't ever tell someone to buy this or that, I try to pass on the information requested about a Nikon Optic and then you make the choice that best fit's your needs. Does the BDC Reticle work, Yes. I have used it many times to harvest animals over the last 8 years. Is it better today because of Nikon's Spot On Ballistic Program, absolutely. Is it for everyone, obviously not. Find what work's best for you.
I think some range time and making sure everything is mounted correctly will have Ali shooting with the accuracy she expect's.

An answer to an earlier question is, yes. The BDC reticle is set to be used at the highest magnification setting. That being said, Spot On allow's you to go in under generate ballistic report's and see a field reference guide to see what the distances would be through all magnification's.

Living in Tx. I have hunted during our summer and believe me last summer was the worst, 114 was the hottest I saw and I hunted a few day's where the 6 pm temp. was still 104.Now come winter it's 40's and I still have been lucky enough to not have a miss. I must say, thanks to Snow I will be taking my Coyote Rifle tot he range with me next time since the day I sighted it in last June it was 104 deg..
Bart
Nikon Pro Staff

[farmerj]

Bart,

My issue with you spot on program is you dial it in for one set of conditions. What are those conditions for Ali's scope for when she bought it? Just by the information snow gave, that's enough for her to have the issues she's having.

That turret adjusts for range along with the reticle. It doesn't adjust for changing conditions.

Even shooting the MBPR method, one has to be aware of field conditions.

Use whatever reticle or turret system you want, but remember it is constanly changing your ballistic urve. The only way to know what it's going to shoot is go shoot and click log the results.

[bman940]

I do not disagree with you at all Farm. , you are right, condition's change and we need to change with them. Do we do it? While I am aware of the changes I don't make adjustment's in the field like that. Do 90% of the shooter's, I don't think so. Like you I have log's on my rifle's and scope's, honestly as much as I shoot it is easier and once I started doing it I realized I should have started doing it a long time ago. That is why experienced shooter's take the range time so much more seriously then recreational shooters. I loaned a buddy my coyote rifle, told him it was sighted in, here's my circle distances now go to the range and shoot it. He didn't, still shot 2 coyote's inside of 250 yards.
Forum's like this are a great learning tool for folk's just getting into long range shooting and passing on info about why we do certain things such as shooting log's may be a big help to them. I wish I had started keeping log's on my rifle/scope's 20 years ago.
I also agree with you on the Maximum Point Blank Range Shooting Method. If you use the SPot On program without a BDC Reticle it allow's you to set Optimize Load, including your vital's size that you want to hit. As we all say, defintely no substitute for range time and knowing the ballistic's of what you are shooting.
Thank you for the reply.
Bart
Nikon Pro Staff

[ali_squidz]

You could try sighting in at 200 with the 200 reticle, and then going back to 100 to check the zero. Or, shoot at 100 yds with the 200 rd reticle, the rounds should strike about 1.1 inches high to be sighted in.

The reason I suggest the above, is because the 200 reticle consists of intersecting lines, which is easier to line up when sighting in compared to the middle of an open circle.

I would go with this. Although, there aren't intersecting straight lines. They're intersecting lines of the two circles, which will make it harder.

Or you could do yourself a favor and buy a scope with a decent reticle. If you bought this one from a big box store, you may be able to return it.

Did this as well last weekend. It was still all over the place. I've had it. I am sending it back.

[ali_squidz]

Apparently my knowing not everyone needs or wants to know every detail about ballistics means I have a knowledge deficiency.

Thank you...
and it's a SHE not a HE.

[ali_squidz]

Alicia, it looks to me like you shot 3" at 200 in your upper left group. I think with a little more range time with your new scope and reticle, you should be able to pull that group in a bit. To be honest 3" at 200 isn't too bad for your first time out or your worst time out.

I'm a far better shot than that Hornet. This isn't my first time out, but it is with this gun. I had the exact same gun with a different scope and I was dead on. I am more accurate with my .22 at 100 yds lobbing mortars than this thing, and that's just not right.

[ali_squidz]

2nd focal plane scope. Make sure you are doing all of your sighting in with the scope on its highest power setting.

Yup I did that. 16.

[ali_squidz]

2nd focal plane scope. Make sure you are doing all of your sighting in with the scope on its highest power setting.

I am a Military guy so Mil-dot is what I learned on and understand, but I am always up to test new technology. I met a Nikon factory guy at the Shot Show and I decided to try the BDC and the Spot On program.

The BDC circle aiming points and distance change with the magnification. Jump on the Nikon website and plug your info into the Nikon Spot On program. If you have an IPhone there is a Spot On app that will let you plug your real time(wind speed /direction,ambient temperature and ammo) information at the range.

http://www.nikonhunting.com/spoton/

Yup. Did that. Even printed it out and brought it with. Even with different wind calculations, it was only a 1" diff at 200 yds. Does not account for the big spread no matter what ammo, wind and temp I put in.

[farmerj]

did you try a box test?

Different ammo (brand and weight)?

What is the twist on the barrel and what weight bullet are you shooting? Either I missed it, or it's not posted.

[ali_squidz]

This is kinda like telling your wife to sell the minivan, buy a Porsche, and go to the track to practice over and understeering so she can get the kids to school in a 5 second window.

The OP just wants a scope that can get her within one minute of Yote, QUICKLY with MINIMAL THINKING AND CALCULATION (i.e., not mil dot), out to about 400 yrds or so. Hold over reticules are perfect for this (assuming you get them set up correctly). They will even function with a variety of ammo and conditions.

Now what you say about practicing is worthwhile, but the OP really only needs to do some work on trigger control, range estimation, and sighting in the rifle. This will be enough to have the system that she already has perform to her specifications (i.e., banging Yotes). [/quote]


Sigh....
I am dead nuts on with every gun I own including one that is identical to this one minus the scope. I dont want to be cocky here but I am a good shot. Im sure everyone says this but I have shot with a few guys on here and they would attest to it. I am positive of that.
I honestly was in tears last weekend because of how poorly this gun (gun/scope combo) is making me shoot. Yes I am a girl so therefore I am allowed to go in the house and cry to my dad. Deal with it.
Maybe it's the reticle? Maybe it's what the Nikon guy said and it's a defective scope? Hell if I know. All I know is... I cannot hit the broad side of a barn with this thing and I am losing the confidence in not only myself but the scope/ gun combo. I have stretched my old DPMS much much farther, through trees, down hill with wind and still hit my targets (cans) with no problems. Posting these target shots is honestly a freakin embarassment.
Trigger control? Yeah.... For sure. Breathing control? Yup... that too. (I actually had to walk away a couple times because I was not able to control my breathing well enough for my liking) Even got a bipod, everything but the bench. I got the range finder so you can't really through that out there either. Sighting in the rifle... Yup I AM TRYING TO.....
Im going to try a different scope and see what happens. I would like to take the Leupold off dad's 270 but it's sighted in and he doesnt want to take it off. I guess I cant blame him.

[ali_squidz]

did you try a box test?

Different ammo (brand and weight)?

What is the twist on the barrel and what weight bullet are you shooting? Either I missed it, or it's not posted.

I can pull up the barrel in a sec. It should be in my email.
55 grain, federal and hornady. Tried them both. Plugged both of them into the spot on stuff as well. No measurable differences.