AR Optics

[dsm2nr]

How about a Larue mounted M4s and magnifier? 2 moa dot, AA batteries and always on for 5 years without a battery change.

The M4s is a nice optic for sure...but what would be its advantage compared to an Aimpoint PRO at 1/2 the pice? As to the Aimpoint magnifier...it's nice too, but $150 more than the Eotech...

One is battle proven... I'm not saying someone can't get by using the PRO, obviously Aimpoint puts out high quality everything. But it's pretty much how tested it's been.

[qualcorp]

Also take a gander at the Vortex Strikfire: http://www.vortexoptics.com/category/st ... e_red_dots

The sight and the swing out magnifier can be had for a little over $500. I like my setup, but could only wish for a smaller dot.

Last week at Bill's North, I put twenty rounds through the target's center at 50 yards. Am very satisfied with my purchase.

Please bombard mr with questions...

Aimpoint Micro H1: The 3 MOA dot blots out a 1.5” spot at 50 yards, and a 3” spot at 100 yards. It shouldn’t be a surprise that red dots aren’t for varmint hunter, snipers, or benchrest shooters. Tactical carbines aren’t either.
Eotech XPS-3: Instead of a simple red dot to aim by, it projects a 65 MOA aiming circle with quadrant ticks and a tiny 1 MOA dot in the center.
“If I had a flattop AR and enough money left over, I’d put an Eotech on it and never look back. They look and shoot like they were made for each other; probably they were”.

[Hmac]

How about a Larue mounted M4s and magnifier? 2 moa dot, AA batteries and always on for 5 years without a battery change.

The M4s is a nice optic for sure...but what would be its advantage compared to an Aimpoint PRO at 1/2 the pice? As to the Aimpoint magnifier...it's nice too, but $150 more than the Eotech...

One is battle proven... I'm not saying someone can't get by using the PRO, obviously Aimpoint puts out high quality everything. But it's pretty much how tested it's been.

Yeah...the PRO is basically a Comp M3, which has actually been in military and LEO use longer than the Comp M4. The PRO looks like a better way to go, at least from a cost-effectiveness standpoint.

[dsm2nr]

Yeah...the PRO is basically a Comp M3, which has actually been in military and LEO use longer than the Comp M4. The PRO looks like a better way to go, at least from a cost-effectiveness standpoint.

Is this a personal observation? Or do you have a reference? Because really the m2, m3 and m4 are all 'alike' but have different guts, thus the price difference.

[Hmac]

Yeah...the PRO is basically a Comp M3, which has actually been in military and LEO use longer than the Comp M4. The PRO looks like a better way to go, at least from a cost-effectiveness standpoint.

Is this a personal observation? Or do you have a reference? Because really the m2, m3 and m4 are all 'alike' but have different guts, thus the price difference.

I have no doubt that the M4/M4s is a top-of-the-line durable optic and may well be more robust that the M2 or M3. Is the M4s worth paying $400 extra for? I'd be the last one to criticize an expensive gun accessory that a person wants, but functionally, the PRO works the same - same 30mm tube, same 2MOA red dot. As to durability, Pat Rogers has been throwing Aimpoints across the room or against a tree as an opener to his classes for years, starting with M2, M3, and now M4. All have stood up well to his abuse, as has mine albeit in somewhat milder application.

[dsm2nr]

Yeah...the PRO is basically a Comp M3, which has actually been in military and LEO use longer than the Comp M4. The PRO looks like a better way to go, at least from a cost-effectiveness standpoint.

Is this a personal observation? Or do you have a reference? Because really the m2, m3 and m4 are all 'alike' but have different guts, thus the price difference.

I have no doubt that the M4/M4s is a top-of-the-line durable optic and may well be more robust that the M2 or M3. Is the M4s worth paying $400 extra for? I'd be the last one to criticize an expensive gun accessory that a person wants, but functionally, the PRO works the same - same 30mm tube, same 2MOA red dot. As to durability, Pat Rogers has been throwing Aimpoints across the room or against a tree as an opener to his classes for years, starting with M2, M3, and now M4. All have stood up well to his abuse, as has mine albeit in somewhat milder application.

I think you took what I said as an attack. That was not intended.

I was just asking if you had a reference to the M3 being the same as a PRO. Since you used the testing of the M3 to support a reason to get the PRO.

[Norsesmithy]

When the PRO was introduced last year, the explanation that all the press releases had was that the PRO was a M2 with the older, pre-ACET electronics.

[MissouriDave]

In my opinion, the ACET electronics is what put Aimpoint way ahead in the game. The power management of that is something no one else can touch.

M4s uses AA batteries...but what beats it all for me is comes down to the purpose and readiness. If I need it I need it now and ready to go. If I have to fumble under stress when I have about a second to get a shot off, I do not want to say "time out. Need to turn my red dot on". That is the killer for the EOTech, although they are great products. If you are out in the woods, fine doesn't make much difference. If you are sleeping or running your shop and an imminent threat is there, big difference.

With the M4s just get a product that improves on the previous. 80,000 hours on 11 of 16 running lithium AA's. That's about 90 cents a year in batteries and the thing never shuts off.

[Hmac]

When the PRO was introduced last year, the explanation that all the press releases had was that the PRO was a M2 with the older, pre-ACET electronics.

Aimpoint PRO uses ACET electronics. Plus, the CompM2 has a 4 MOA dot.

[Hmac]

I think you took what I said as an attack. That was not intended.

I was just asking if you had a reference to the M3 being the same as a PRO. Since you used the testing of the M3 to support a reason to get the PRO.

No, no...no attack perceived.

When it first came out, the PRO was noted to use the Comp M3 chassis and the electronics based on their ACET technology. My assumption at the time was that it was a previous-version (1st gen) CompM3, and that was confirmed over and over by people who know the landscape better than I (Grant at G&R Tactical, among others). But otherwise no, I can't document that that's the case. And yes, the combination of price and the reputation of the CompM3 (and CompM2 for that matter) were reasons that contributed to my getting the PRO.

I know that battery life is very important to some people, but it's not to me. I have no need for any of my weapons to be instantly ready - they're all locked up and not at all part of my home-defense scenario. Actually,I prefer Eotechs even with their 8 hour shutoff and 600 hour battery life. I have three of those, plus an Aimpoint T-1 and the PRO. I do like the PRO, never did care for the T-1.

[Norsesmithy]

When the PRO was introduced last year, the explanation that all the press releases had was that the PRO was a M2 with the older, pre-ACET electronics.

Aimpoint PRO uses ACET electronics. Plus, the CompM2 has a 4 MOA dot.

Dot size is a simple emitter lens change, ACET electronics in the PRO should provide 80-100k hours continuous operation instead of 30k hours.

I note that AIMPOINT's website does say that the PRO is an ACET sight, but since other ACET sights with the same battery type offer at twice the battery life, I'm still gonna say that the PRO is the older, cheaper CET internals.

Maybe that makes it a previous gen M3 in an M2 body, but it doesn't really matter. As far as anyone can tell or has experienced, the PRO is simply a cheaper, harder to get, slightly less sophisticated Aimpoint. It's still **** tough as hell, easy to use, and generally going to be a good purchase if what you are looking for is a tough simple collimator tube sight for not a lot of cash, and you don't mind the burden of being forced to switch batteries every 3 years.

[qualcorp]

Aimpoint battery life
EXPS3-0
* Brightness Adjustment Range: 110,000:1 brightest to lowest
* Power Source: (1) 123 lithium battery
* Battery Life: 600 continuous hours at nominal setting 1
* Auto Battery Check Indicator: Flashing reticle upon start-up
* Auto Shut-down: At 8 hrs- programmable to 4 hrs

That's 150, four hour range sessions, per life of a single battery. Not a big deal. The the 1MOA dot size and unlimited eye relief were the game changers for me. Throw in the versatility of G23FTS , that arrived today....well - I'll let you know on that one

[dsm2nr]

No, no...no attack perceived.

When it first came out, the PRO was noted to use the Comp M3 chassis and the electronics based on their ACET technology. My assumption at the time was that it was a previous-version (1st gen) CompM3, and that was confirmed over and over by people who know the landscape better than I (Grant at G&R Tactical, among others). But otherwise no, I can't document that that's the case. And yes, the combination of price and the reputation of the CompM3 (and CompM2 for that matter) were reasons that contributed to my getting the PRO.

I know that battery life is very important to some people, but it's not to me. I have no need for any of my weapons to be instantly ready - they're all locked up and not at all part of my home-defense scenario. Actually,I prefer Eotechs even with their 8 hour shutoff and 600 hour battery life. I have three of those, plus an Aimpoint T-1 and the PRO. I do like the PRO, never did care for the T-1.

Ah, Grant is pretty deep in the industry and I take his word as a reliable source. Thanks for the clarification.

[qualcorp]

I had T1 on M1a socom 16 build...sold it with the riffle.

[Norsesmithy]

Aimpoint battery life
EXPS3-0
* Brightness Adjustment Range: 110,000:1 brightest to lowest
* Power Source: (1) 123 lithium battery
* Battery Life: 600 continuous hours at nominal setting 1
* Auto Battery Check Indicator: Flashing reticle upon start-up
* Auto Shut-down: At 8 hrs- programmable to 4 hrs

That's 150, four hour range sessions, per life of a single battery. Not a big deal. The the 1MOA dot size and unlimited eye relief were the game changers for me. Throw in the versatility of G23FTS , that arrived today....well - I'll let you know on that one

I'm glad you like your Eotech, but as nice as 150 4 hour range sessions is, it's not quite the same, for a defensive use rifle, as just being able to pick it up and use it because the battery life is so go there's no reason to ever switch off the optic. Both sights have unlimited eye relief.

IF you don't use your AR as a nightstand gun, great. But if you do, it's a significant difference.