Form 4 and SBR buying questions.

[ranger2339]

So, I have a few questions about buying a SBR, as I am a bit confused on the whole process with the "stamp" and the form..

First, I am looking to buy a SBR, not build one; so, I need a Form 4 correct?

Can I fill out the form, get the stamp, then go shopping for the rifle I want, or, do I need to find the rifle, then fill out the proper paperwork?

I have read something about engraving the lower, who does that part?

Also, can I fill out the form when I am over seas? I ask because there is a part on the form were I need my sheriff to fill out a section and I need fingerprints and a photo. I do have fingerprint cards and passport photos on file with the Wash. county sheriff, for when I got my security clearance.

If there is anybody out there that's wants to help me out, I would be much obliged, I am ready to get this process under way ASAP.

Thanks,

Josh

[Meta-Prometheus]

Firearms and devices that fall under the National Firearms Act (NFA) are a different beast entirely from your regular firearms at for example Cabela's or Gander Mountain.

What I suggest you do first before jumping into anything NFA related is read up more about the laws in general. I would suggest finding an NFA firearms dealer (commonly known as Class 3 dealers) who can help you more with questions and the whole process of purchasing NFA firearms.

If you are buying (transferring) an SBR, it will have to be transferred through a Class 3 dealer. They will provide the Form 4's and walk you through the process.

You do not have to engrave the receiver if you are buying an SBR as this will already have been done. If you are building an SBR however, you need to engrave the receiver with your name/city/state.

Your Class 3 dealer will help you out with CLEO signature, fingerprint cards, and passport photos. The fingerprint cards for NFA firearms are different than the cards police departments have. Your fingerprints are being taken for a federal background check. The police cards are for booking criminals into the system.

Even after you get all the paperwork signed and sent off to the ATF, it will be awhile before you get the approved forms returned. I think the average wait time currently is close to six months.

So in short, find a Class 3 dealer in your area to help you with this process. If you live in Minnesota, Shade's Landing is the only NFA dealer I know of:

http://www.shadeslanding.com/index.html

[ranger2339]

Thanks a ton for the info. that clears things up a lot. I have been doing a good amount of reading on the subject, and came to the conclusion that I should just talk to a dealer; as they would know what to do.

I do have a federal clearance with multiple Government agency's. I guess, I should of said I just went down to my sheriffs office to get the prints from them to send to the feds for my clearance.

Also, has anybody every heard of a gun trust?? I contacted this guy and he is pushing the gun trust deal, saying it is better than an individual ownership? Any help there would be great.

http://www.guntrustlawyer.com/


Thanks,

Josh

[crbutler]

I have not done a trust, but as it was explained to me, it has 2 major advantages for buyers.

First, it removes the requirement for CLEO sign off.

Secondly, it allows for more than one person to have the firearm- in essence, anyone who is listed on the trust as a trustee can have possession of the gun and use it.

You would be better off asking someone who does it about the particulars (as in a lawyer), but the first gun you get with the trust will be more expensive as you will eat the cost of forming the trust. It does not stop the requirement of getting a tax stamp on the gun, and I believe that you need to periodically do something to keep a trust active.

I also understand that they are talking (as in who knows when and what if any changes are going to be made) about trying to tighten up the rules so that trusts and individual tax stamps are more the same.

[ranger2339]

Thanks for the info. As I read deeper and deeper into it I think I will do a trust, as my wife will need to have access to the weapons when I am gone. It does seem a bit steep to form the trust from what I have been reading; I will have to dig into it more. I am just posting what I find in this thread, hoping for some more clarity from members here.

Anybody know these guys?

http://www.innerchamberguns.com/class3transfers.html

Also, anybody know any good local lawyers that are gun knowledgeable that I can talk to?


Thanks,

Josh

[crbutler]

If it's an individual tax stamp, it just means that you keep the combo to the safe yourself. I would not want to use any NFA weapon as a self defense gun, as it opens one up for liability issues I have been told. ( Full auto for sure, SBR, I don't know, and would not want to be the test case.)

Also, a tax stamp does not mean that no one else can shoot the gun, just that you need to be there when they are.

I did not consider a trust worth worrying about.

I did talk with David Gross about it once upon a time, and he convinced me that in my case, the trust was something to do only if the CLEO became unwilling to let anything proceed.

[Snakeman721]

Thanks for the info. As I read deeper and deeper into it I think I will do a trust, as my wife will need to have access to the weapons when I am gone. It does seem a bit steep to form the trust from what I have been reading; I will have to dig into it more. I am just posting what I find in this thread, hoping for some more clarity from members here.

Anybody know these guys?

http://www.innerchamberguns.com/class3transfers.html

Also, anybody know any good local lawyers that are gun knowledgeable that I can talk to?


Thanks,

Josh

Yep, Inner chamber gun sales is Chris Williamson. I've done lots of FFL transfers with him (regular firearms, not SBRs) without a hitch. Great guy to work with! He's in Maple Grove, MN.

[Hmac]

I've always built my own SBRs so they're all stamped via Form 1s. There are no Class III dealers around here AFAIK. Although cumbersome, NFA is not a particularly difficult process.There are some significant advantages to owning NFA firearms through a trust. From a standpoint of handing them down to the kids if nothing else, I now find myself getting ready to have an attorney draw one up so that I can transfer them into the trust. Unfortunately, that will cost me another $200 per gun and another application process to the NFA Branch. Many people set up their own gun trust using Quicken Willmaker. That's a cheaper route, but it's probably safer to have an attorney set it up (get one knowledgeable in gun trusts). Google "gun trust lawyer".

Better make sure your county Sheriff will sign your Form 4. Even though they are held harmless for any crimes you might commit with your SBR, some Sheriffs refuse to sign them.

There has been a significant change in methodology since they put in a new head of NFA Branch. Be prepared for your Form 4 to take awhile. Current transit times (last 6 months) for Form 4 Individual from rifle purchase to stamp received is about 268 days according to NFATracker.com. Transit time for a Form 4 Trust is 206 days.