Rifle Barrel Break-In??

[PowderBurn14]

Nice info UnaStamus, thanks.

[UnaStamus]

So once again, how does cleaning wear out a barrel? I get crown damage from nicks of metal on metal but these barrels are having copper sent down them with fouling in the barrel (unless you clean after every shot) so how can a cloth patch that collects that same fouling do anything to it?

When people clean rifle barrels, they tend to use corrosive chemicals like copper remover and more aggressive solvents. Add to that using copper brushes, brass jags and whatnot, and it increases the wear on the barrel. When people clean barrels during break-in, they're usually cleaning the barrel until it's spotless. I see it at my gun club all the time where they shoot a round and then spend the next 10 minutes cleaning, wash-rinse-repeat. There are ways to reduce the wear, like using nylon brushes and less corrosive solvents, and not cleaning every time until your patch is spotless.
Add to that the people that use the Tubbs abrasive bullets, and that causes wear also. I hear a lot of people talk about how Tubbs recommends break-in, but the flip-side of the coin is that he has a financial interest in making people believe they need to break in their barrels, so I'm a skeptic.

I think ultimately the correct answer is to do whatever the builder/gunsmith/manufacturer tells you to do. If they tell you it's necessary for their barrel to be warrantied, then you just gotta do it. Just my $0.02.
If it makes you feel better to do it, then whatever- it's your rifle. It was made to be shot, so shoot it however you want.

[Dave Timm]

I agree break in has really become this big debate that no one can really quantify. You have some high end barrel makers that so do it, others say don't. My thing is dont over heat your barrel, especially at first. I've seen more reputable sources say high heat can cause more issues then pure volume. And as far as cleaning goes, I too have seen people be way to aggressive with cleaning then they need to be. Even on my comp rifles usually they get a bore snake every now and again and maybe a more detailed bore cleaning once or twice a year. In my armorer experience Ive seen more bad then good come from over cleaning. My favorite is when people get power tools involved, that's always fun. Or when people let Sweets soak overnight, good times. I've used just about every bore cleaner I could find and I now generally use simple stuff and not the super toxic stuff.

[Hoot]

I agree break in has really become this big debate that no one can really quantify. You have some high end barrel makers that so do it, others say don't. My thing is dont over heat your barrel, especially at first. I've seen more reputable sources say high heat can cause more issues then pure volume. And as far as cleaning goes, I too have seen people be way to aggressive with cleaning then they need to be. Even on my comp rifles usually they get a bore snake every now and again and maybe a more detailed bore cleaning once or twice a year. In my armorer experience Ive seen more bad then good come from over cleaning. My favorite is when people get power tools involved, that's always fun. Or when people let Sweets soak overnight, good times. I've used just about every bore cleaner I could find and I now generally use simple stuff and not the super toxic stuff.

+1 on the overheating!

I was at the local range last summer on a day where it was almost hotter than I care to shoot at because of the time between shots for the barrel to cool to the same point. Two guys came with a NIB Stainless Ruger Mini 30 and 25 boxes of Herters steel fmj. While one of them ran down and put up silhouette targets, the other took it out of the box, pulled off the tags and that was it for preparation. He didn't even check the barrel! The two of them proceeded to dump mag after mag after mag through it as fast as they could until the boxes were exhausted. The barrel was so hot, one of them got a nasty 2nd degree burn when he touched it with his forearm. Aside from being rained on with hot steel casings, my project I was there for became less interesting than watching them trash that barrel in record time. When they were done, they didn't retrieve their almost pristine targets or sweep up their casings. They put that poor rifle back in the box and my nose was immediately greeted with the smell of melting styrofoam. Tossed it into the trunk and off they went. A total of 35 minutes after they arrived. I wished I could be there when the new owner took it out at home, only to discover a nasty mess. Oh well, nothing that a scotchbrite pad couldn't fix.

There is OCD obsession with handling your shooting irons and then there are folks like that...

Hoot

[Dave Timm]

We have beat up our fair share of barrels in the name of "torture testing" but I agree. We purposely wanted to push things and see how things could go, it is not something we recomend the user do, but of course no one reads the manual If you want to burn a barrel, full auto, slide fire, bump fire, mag dumps whatever is a great way to burn out your investment. My favorite is when I was at an outdoor shooting pit. We had a guy show up with an AR, some bump stock, a bunch of mags and a drum. He burned off rounds like they were going out of style. Then when he was done he set his rifle on a cheap import case which almost started on fire lol. The melted plastic and padding was caked on his barrel so bad I couldn't help but laugh. I felt kinda bad but got over it. He also didn't pick up anything so I got some nice brass for sticking around and a good show.

[xd ED]

We have beat up our fair share of barrels in the name of "torture testing" but I agree. We purposely wanted to push things and see how things could go, it is not something we recomend the user do, but of course no one reads the manual If you want to burn a barrel, full auto, slide fire, bump fire, mag dumps whatever is a great way to burn out your investment. My favorite is when I was at an outdoor shooting pit. We had a guy show up with an AR, some bump stock, a bunch of mags and a drum. He burned off rounds like they were going out of style. Then when he was done he set his rifle on a cheap import case which almost started on fire lol. The melted plastic and padding was caked on his barrel so bad I couldn't help but laugh. I felt kinda bad but got over it. He also didn't pick up anything so I got some nice brass for sticking around and a good show.

HSLD don't come cheap.

[UnaStamus]

I agree break in has really become this big debate that no one can really quantify. You have some high end barrel makers that so do it, others say don't. My thing is don't over heat your barrel, especially at first. I've seen more reputable sources say high heat can cause more issues then pure volume. And as far as cleaning goes, I too have seen people be way to aggressive with cleaning then they need to be. Even on my comp rifles usually they get a bore snake every now and again and maybe a more detailed bore cleaning once or twice a year. In my armorer experience Ive seen more bad then good come from over cleaning. My favorite is when people get power tools involved, that's always fun. Or when people let Sweets soak overnight, good times. I've used just about every bore cleaner I could find and I now generally use simple stuff and not the super toxic stuff.

Werd.
I've seen a lot of wear issues in our rifles as well.

[goalie]

The problem was selecting new sniper rifles because we were currently running a hodge-podge of various Remingtons. Most were shot-out because of overcleaning, since our snipers are anal about always shooting from a clean cold bore.

God invented fouling shots for a reason. Clean. Shoot one or a group. Then put in the case.

[Snowgun]

This issue drives me nuts!

I totally believe in not going crazy with the copper cleaning, but there has to be something said about reaching steady state with a new barrel. I got this supermatch barrel from JP and they have this whole section in it about using the paste and such every 20 shots. Now I feel that JP is a decent manufacturer of precision guns, so it would surprise me if they didn't know what they were talking about on their own barrels. On the other hand there is a lot of evidence (such as Una stated) that it really doesn't make any difference.

Isn't there some theory about using/not using moly as well?

[Hoot]

...snip...
Isn't there some theory about using/not using moly as well?

The only issue with MoS2 (Molybdenum Disulphide) is when folks interpret reduced copper fouling with never needing to clean again. It is hygroscopic and it is derived from a reaction using Sulfur. Some folks have experienced it initiating corrosion in areas where it builds up. If you clean your bore after a session, before putting it away, it's not really a problem. There are alternatives to Moly, but the shooting community tends to be conservative at times. WS2 (Tungsten Disulphide)is a good alternative, but it also is derived from a reaction using Sulfur. HBN (Hexagonal Boron Nitride) is not but it has slightly less lubricity. I have all three and have dabbled with them. They add more steps to reloading and they don't really do anything for carbon deposits, hence the need to still clean before you put it away for the day. In calibers where bore resistance is critical to achieving sufficient pressure, they can cause a reduction in velocity, requiring increasing the charge slightly or picking a powder with a different burn coefficient to keep it the same. Less so with HBN, which costs a little more than the other two.

If you're the inquiring mind type, playing with them is fun. My .22-250 and .300 Win Mag really like it, but if you're challenged with case capacity already and seeking maximum, safe velocity, like in my 6.5 Grendel and 7.62x40WT, then the benefits are a toss up in terms of internal ballistics.

Hoot

[hornswaggle]

I probably don't shoot as much in a year as some of you do in a long day at the range but my opinion is that gun cleaning can turn into a contest amongst enthusiasts just to see who is more anal about their guns. I think this is similar to the auto enthusiasts who claim they change their oil more often than someone else or replace parts just because their standards are presumably higher than the someone else's. I clean my range guns after a day of shooting and my hunting guns at the end of a season or sooner if I feel they need it. I think after all these years they are still in very good to excellent condition and shoot as good as my abilities. I do always clean from breach to muzzle because that's how I was taught but if running a nylon brush or soaked cotton patch into the muzzle is causing damage to the crown of a steel barrel you might be doing something wrong....or your standards are just higher than mine. Either way our guns are clean and we're enjoying shooting them!

[minnhawk]

I think the US Army perpetuates some of this "over cleaning" business. Multiple inspections to get the armorer to accept your weapon as clean and lubed tends to reinforce overcleaning.

It took awhile, but I finally figured out the armorer's thought patterns in regard to rejecting the turn in of our M-16s. They were pretty damn clean after 40 minutes of thorough cleaning inside and out, but he would automatically reject any and all rifles early on in the day as "nasty." We finally figured we would get up in our barracks, turn up the music, and give the rifles a good once-over and set them aside. We had plenty of web gear/LBE and field equipment that needing cleaning, and naps to be taken. 'Round about 5:30 in the late afternoon, the armorer would start to come looking for his rifles -- he had a momma-san with dinner waiting at home. Funny how every rifle passed inspection the first time presented that late in the day.

Bore Snakes are perfect for a nice light cleaning. On the AR variants, I attack the bolt vigorously but otherwise just hose down the receiver with spray cleaner, run some drops of CLP through the barrel with a bore snake, oil the metal surfaces, and put it away.

[PowderBurn14]

My rifle barrel is now broke in. It took about 20 rounds and alot of cleaning. I am seeing alot less copper fouling and it cleans much easier. Finally the barrel has smoothed a good amount. Accuracy is good too, I was able to shoot my last two 155 gr matchkings into half an inch at 200 yrds. I was able to cover them both with a penny. Now to try a 5 shot group at 200 and see what happens.

[Tin Man]

Here are a couple good vids on barrel break-in.

[Snowgun]

I just called JP rifles about their break in Procedure.

The rep said that if I wanted to get the most out of my barrel that I have to follow the instructions:

(Clean, fire 20, then use JB bore compound. Then repeat two more times (fire 20 then use JB, fire 20 then use JB). Repeat again after 300 rds.)

Mystifying why they would be so adamant about this.