Rifle Barrel Break-In??

[Hoot]

I just called JP rifles about their break in Procedure.

The rep said that if I wanted to get the most out of my barrel that I have to follow the instructions:

(Clean, fire 20, then use JB bore compound. Then repeat two more times (fire 20 then use JB, fire 20 then use JB). Repeat again after 300 rds.)

Mystifying why they would be so adamant about this.

They obviously don't know what they're talking about? They left out the part about throwing it on the hardscrabble ground.

Hoot

[Rip Van Winkle]

They obviously don't know what they're talking about? They left out the part about throwing it on the hardscrabble ground.

Hoot

And the magic pixie dust.

[Snowgun]

Seriously, the rep practically implied i would be a dumbass to do anything other than comply with the instructions.

[xd ED]

Along with wondering if anything does anything positive, I have to wonder what 'getting the most out of it' means; long service life with moderate accuracy? Long interval between cleaning? Ease of cleaning? Superb accuracy?
Personally, what I might do to a gamer AR barrel is different than how many times I'd throw a long range bolt gun at a pile of gravel.

[Snowgun]

Along with wondering if anything does anything positive, I have to wonder what 'getting the most out of it' means; long service life with moderate accuracy? Long interval between cleaning? Ease of cleaning? Superb accuracy?
Personally, what I might do to a gamer AR barrel is different than how many times I'd throw a long range bolt gun at a pile of gravel.

He said that if I want 0.624" groups, that I should follow the instructions. If I didn't give a **** about accuracy, I can do what I want.

[Dave Timm]

I think a big part of break in is to avoid heating up the barrel excessively. Several gunsmiths or makers would agree that high heat, fast shooting, mag dumps etc can case the most wear and harm to a barrel. If the maker tells the shooter to shoot 1 clean 1 for X, then Y Z etc it almost ensures a slow pace. I don't think a quick cleaning should hurt anything but sometimes people get so crazy with rods, or use cheap rods, or stick them in the muzzle end damaging the crown that I really caution people on over cleaning.

[Holland&Holland]

I think a big part of break in is to avoid heating up the barrel excessively. Several gunsmiths or makers would agree that high heat, fast shooting, mag dumps etc can case the most wear and harm to a barrel. If the maker tells the shooter to shoot 1 clean 1 for X, then Y Z etc it almost ensures a slow pace. I don't think a quick cleaning should hurt anything but sometimes people get so crazy with rods, or use cheap rods, or stick them in the muzzle end damaging the crown that I really caution people on over cleaning.

It is just so dang confusing. If you clean too much you damage it, if you dont break it in you damage it, Breaking in requires excessive cleaning or wearing the barrel down with a compond but if you over clean latter with cotton patches you will wear it too much....

It is just all so contradicory that none of it makes any sense...

[JJ]

I think a big part of break in is to avoid heating up the barrel excessively. Several gunsmiths or makers would agree that high heat, fast shooting, mag dumps etc can case the most wear and harm to a barrel. If the maker tells the shooter to shoot 1 clean 1 for X, then Y Z etc it almost ensures a slow pace. I don't think a quick cleaning should hurt anything but sometimes people get so crazy with rods, or use cheap rods, or stick them in the muzzle end damaging the crown that I really caution people on over cleaning.

It is just so dang confusing. If you clean too much you damage it, if you dont break it in you damage it, Breaking in requires excessive cleaning or wearing the barrel down with a compond but if you over clean latter with cotton patches you will wear it too much....

It is just all so contradicory that none of it makes any sense...

Hence why it's all opinion. Notice none of us, nor the gun or barrel makers have any sort of consensus.

Protect the crown and shoot it. When accuracy starts to drop clean it.

[hornswaggle]

Just curious if anyone has any photos or other evidence of damage done specifically from over cleaning or if the damage only shows up in accuracy. I've seen damage on the crown of a barrel due to being dropped or other physical abuse but I don't know what it would look like from cotton patches or nylon brushes. If a patch or brush could damage a crown why doesn't it damage the inside of the chamber? Maybe it does but it's not critical to the function, safety, or accuracy of the barrel, I don't know. It just seems like a tight fitting copper plated bullet traveling at over 3000fps would cause more damage to the barrel than a loose fitting brush or patch going through the bore at 1fps. I'm sure harsh cleaning chemicals could be a big factor too but for the purpose of my question let's assume the use of standard 'mild' chemicals.

[yuppiejr]

I don't think it's the cotton patches or brushes doing the damage, it's the impact of the cleaning rod on the rifling at the breech/bore end.

I use bore/chamber guides when I clean rifles along with coated Dewey 1-pc cleaning rods specific to the bore diamater I'm cleaning (yes, I have .30, 7mm and .22 cal cleaning rods) to avoid, as much as possible, cleaning related wear... can't tell you if it impacts accuracy but it seems like a best practice to avoid unneccesary wear and tear as part of my normal maintenance and cleaning routine. If you Google up rifle cleaning damage there are plenty of examples from folks who have the right cameras and other measurement devices you can see the results that poor cleaning technique, particularly with segmented rods going in to the barrel or undersized rods bowing inside and impacting the rifling, etc...

As far as break-in... I've done this with one bolt action rifle previously primarily with the hope that it would make my long term cleaning of the same rifle easier by "seasoning" the barrel. Problem is I can't go back in time and compare if the SAME rifle with and without the break-in procedure, nor can most people, in order to scientifically test this process... and thus don't know if someone who likes to cook with cast iron just started this rumor of 'seasoning' rifle barrels as well?

It does seem like, in limited testing from Chuck Hawks, that barrel lapping among some other basic tuning/upgrades to otherwise "off the rack" rifles had an impact on accuracy long term:

http://www.chuckhawks.com/affordable_accuracy.htm

.. not sure how using JB Bore paste during an initial "break-in" cleaning would compare to a Tubb's type lapping process but I might give this a shot with an inexpensive .308 hunting rifle I've got that's still new/unfired and see how my results compare with his (it's going to be a minute of deer rifle it's whole life so 2-3 MOA is acceptable for my application if things go horribly wrong... and replacement barrels are cheap if necessary ).

[UnaStamus]

God invented fouling shots for a reason. Clean. Shoot one or a group. Then put in the case.

Yeah, I brought that up. They're absolutely afraid of dirty rifles though. Our rifles are about 1moa off on the CCB shot with our duty ammo. I asked what a CB/DCB shot was, and I think it was about 0.5-0.75 MOA. I think it's a good reason for keeping a dirty bore, but whatever.

Here are a couple good vids on barrel break-in.

John's got several videos where he talks about cleaning related issues and whatnot. He's got a lot of good info elsewhere about how he only cleans his rifles when the accuracy drops off, and the rest of the time he cleans the chamber and runs a boresnake through to knock out the detritus. There's something to be said about getting 10k rounds out of a .308 barrel.

I just called JP rifles about their break in Procedure.

The rep said that if I wanted to get the most out of my barrel that I have to follow the instructions:

(Clean, fire 20, then use JB bore compound. Then repeat two more times (fire 20 then use JB, fire 20 then use JB). Repeat again after 300 rds.)

Mystifying why they would be so adamant about this.

Along with wondering if anything does anything positive, I have to wonder what 'getting the most out of it' means; long service life with moderate accuracy? Long interval between cleaning? Ease of cleaning? Superb accuracy?
Personally, what I might do to a gamer AR barrel is different than how many times I'd throw a long range bolt gun at a pile of gravel.

He said that if I want 0.624" groups, that I should follow the instructions. If I didn't give a **** about accuracy, I can do what I want.

Nothing against JP, but like what Gale McMillan alluded to years back, they have a vested interest in you needing a new barrel some day.
It's also of note that the mindset of break-in is subjective, and it's one of those things that is taught in certain circles and not taught in others. It just depends how you were trained, and that is how the whole cycle perpetuates (regardless of which side of the coin you're on). It's one of those great gun arguments that will never ever end. Just like pump vs semi shotguns and 9mm vs 45.
However, if they are claiming that .624" groups from an AR barrel is the top they can do, that's not very impressive. I have seen numerous AR barrels pulling sub-0.5MOA. I have one that currently shoots .460 MOA 5-shot groups. Not too sure I'd be bragging about .624" groups if I were them. Just my $0.02

[Dave Timm]

I'm not sure if I still have the photos but I worked on a ban era AR with damaged barrel. This didn't have a threaded barrel or muzzle device and was an unlined steel barrel. The user used a crappy alum multi piece rod and damaged the crown and the bore as the pieces came loose and scratched inside. The rod had a big bur in it at one of the sections.

[OldmanFCSA]

With my AR-50 using 800 grain brass solids, I shot a 0.4716 MOA group at 1000 yards.
There was approximately 1800 rounds on the barrel.
Now with 3800+ rounds on it, I'm lucky to get 1.5-2.0 MOA. It is being rebarrelled.
250 grains of powder does a lot of damage to the throats when fired.
And I use Brownell's SS bore brushes to clean the carbon out.

[goalie]

Yeah, I brought that up. They're absolutely afraid of dirty rifles though. Our rifles are about 1moa off on the CCB shot with our duty ammo. I asked what a CB/DCB shot was, and I think it was about 0.5-0.75 MOA. I think it's a good reason for keeping a dirty bore, but whatever.

Yeah, when I first fell into good land to rifle hunt (private) I didn't want to drag a "nice" rifle up a tree with me. I got a Mossberg ATR-100 in .270 for about 200 bucks at Wal-mart and got a scope zero'd on it.

It doesn't shoot great groups. It is a legit 1-1.25MOA gun at 100 yards with factory ammo, and barely under 1MOA with handloads. To be fair, I have not really worked anything special up with that rifle, as 100 yards is a long shot where I hunt up North, and it's had a fixed 4.75x Weaver Grand Slam scope on it that isn't exactly the best for shooting tiny groups.

Anyhow, the thing is, that rifle shoots POA=POI with both clean or fouled bore. Close enough that I can't tell any difference, especially since it isn't shooting gnat's-ass groups.

To me, THAT is gold. A cheap rifle/scope combo that holds cold-bore zero year after year after year. Over a dozen one-shot deer now and counting.

If your shot MATTERS, it's where the first one goes, not how big a 5-shot group is that you should worry about.

[UnaStamus]

Very true, but shot group gives you an idea of deviation of the round that you should expect. It's also important for longer range shots. Reliability of shot placement is always important.