SBR Build - Need Assistance

[viskerep]

I'm beginning my first SBR build and would like to pick the brains of those who have experience in this area. My first question is can I have all of the rifle components in house? On other forums I've read I've seen a lot of mixed responses so I'm unsure.

Second, with regards to getting the tax stamp, any recommendations of local twin cities area Class III places that can bring me through the necessary steps? Same deal, I've read a lot of different things online and would like to have it done right the first time. Thanks for the help!

[rugersol]

I can't say about havin' the components, without the stamp ... however, one thing I've heard now 'n then is simply build it as a "pistol" ... and once ya get yer stamp, redo the back-end!

I've done a couple pistols ... IIRC, Ace sells a buffer/tube/kit fer like $60?! $60 insurance against any problems ... and ya even shoot it!

Also, the lower needs to be a "virgin", in order to be a "pistol" ... once it wears a buttstock, it can never be a "pistol", again!

[viskerep]

That's a good point! Does any special type of registration need to happen for a pistol or is it as long as I have a pistol buffer tube on it I am good to go? Thanks.

[rugersol]

That's a good point! Does any special type of registration need to happen for a pistol or is it as long as I have a pistol buffer tube on it I am good to go? Thanks.

Like I said, it's gotta be a "virgin" lower! (4473's require the dealer to specify one of "handgun", "rifle", or "other" ... s/b "other" ... then it can be either ... if the dealer insists on "rifle", yer on yer own! ) ... ya, as long as it ain't got a buttstock, GTG!

ETA: actually, it don't need to be a "virgin" lower ... it can be from a prior "pistol" build ... it jest can't ever have worn a buttstock ... I personally prefer the idea of a "virgin" lower with a fresh 4473 with "other" checked!

ETA: 'fore ya ask, "no", it don't need to have "pistol" engraved in the lower! ... though, some folks prefer, that it does! YMMV

[FJ540]

If it started life as a pistol, it can return to pistol config as it's legally a pistol according to my interpretation of the ATF's rulings on carbine kits. Making an AR pistol into a rifle takes the same number of manipulations as adding a stock to a pistol from another line and making a carbine out of it. Those which are designed as "kits" (which I would have little difficulty in making that case with the modular nature of the AR platform) are specifically allowed via the ATF's ruling letters.

What you can't do is make it so the buttstock is easily added when the gun is sporting a short barrel.

All of which hinges on whether the lower was transferred to you as an "other" or a pistol or rifle. If it was transferred as a rifle - the ATF says that's a rifle and you can't make it into a pistol anyway.

[Hmac]

I'm beginning my first SBR build and would like to pick the brains of those who have experience in this area. My first question is can I have all of the rifle components in house? On other forums I've read I've seen a lot of mixed responses so I'm unsure.

Second, with regards to getting the tax stamp, any recommendations of local twin cities area Class III places that can bring me through the necessary steps? Same deal, I've read a lot of different things online and would like to have it done right the first time. Thanks for the help!

"Contructive intent" is the bugaboo that online forums obsess about if you have a non-registered receiver in the same house as a barrel less than 16 inches. One does have to consider the practicality...the likelihood of an ATF agent visiting your house. One way to minimize that possibility is to not post about it on the internet.

There are lots of place online to get info about the process http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=9830 . Lot's of misinformation as well, and FFLs, even some Class III FFL's are not necessarily as informed as they might be. Having said that, if you're going to buy an SBR, you'll have to use a Class III dealer and transfer it on a Form 4. If you're going to build it (a tough thing in this environment), you can register it on a Form 1 and do the build yourself, acquiring the parts, while you're waiting (6 months) for the stamp. The Form 1 process is not as complicated as it seems.

If you already have most of the parts (minus the short barrel, of course) you could do the build as a pistol if the receiver wasn't 4473'd as a rifle. You can't make a pistol from a rifle. You can make a rifle from a pistol and back again if you have the stamp. Other option is to make the whole rifle now but with a 16 inch barrel, then just acquire the short barrel and switch it over when the stamp arrives.

SBR's are a blast. I was reminded of this shooting at the range the other day. After a full session with my 11.5 inch SBR, I shot a magazine or two with the range officer's Huldra. Nice rifle, but the A-B comparison difference between the two was startling from a handling perspective. I rarely shoot my Light Recce anymore.

[BemidjiDweller]

I'm doing my SBR build by building a pistol first and then either buying another stock for it, or moving the stock from my rifle to it when the stamp comes in. That way I'm not at the mercy of the market when buying a short barrel. If I see a deal, I can jump on it without having to worry about constructive intent.

[Holland&Holland]

OP thanks for asking this question as I have been wondering this myself. For the form 1 you have to know the length of the barrel and the overall length of the build. So if you do not have the components on hand how do you do this? I.e. obviously you can put down the lenght of barrel you plan on buying but with everyone out of stock is it likely you can get the one you plan on? I understand the benefit of building the pistol first but once again if you do not have the SBR stock components on hand to measure, then how do you know? Or just guess based on manufacturers info online?

[Hmac]

OP thanks for asking this question as I have been wondering this myself. For the form 1 you have to know the length of the barrel and the overall length of the build. So if you do not have the components on hand how do you do this? I.e. obviously you can put down the lenght of barrel you plan on buying but with everyone out of stock is it likely you can get the one you plan on? I understand the benefit of building the pistol first but once again if you do not have the SBR stock components on hand to measure, then how do you know? Or just guess based on manufacturers info online?

If you can't get the barrel length you put on the Form 1, just send NFA Branch a notification that you are changing the rifle's permanent configuration and forget about it. You may eventually get an acknowledgement, but it might be a year or more. The acknowledgement isn't necessary, just the letter of notification.

Guessing at the OAL from mfgr's specs should be fine. The ATF is more concerned about whether or not you paid the tax on the weapon than its actual configuration.

[Holland&Holland]

OP thanks for asking this question as I have been wondering this myself. For the form 1 you have to know the length of the barrel and the overall length of the build. So if you do not have the components on hand how do you do this? I.e. obviously you can put down the lenght of barrel you plan on buying but with everyone out of stock is it likely you can get the one you plan on? I understand the benefit of building the pistol first but once again if you do not have the SBR stock components on hand to measure, then how do you know? Or just guess based on manufacturers info online?

If you can't get the barrel length you put on the Form 1, just send NFA Branch a notification that you are changing the rifle's permanent configuration and forget about it. You may eventually get an acknowledgement, but it might be a year or more. The acknowledgement isn't necessary, just the letter of notification.

Guessing at the OAL from mfgr's specs should be fine. The ATF is more concerned about whether or not you paid the tax on the weapon than its actual configuration.

Thank you.

On the engraving my understanding is that it is Name and City and State, correct? Is there a publication to look at on the specific requirements? JShubergs right up just reccomended Orion but did not get into specifics.

Also following the Jshuberg write-up, he did not address 4d. If it is from a stripped lower that has no model number listed on it just manufacuturer and SN does one leave this blank?

[Holland&Holland]

Sorry, one more question. In the JShuberg write up someone questioned his take on the OAL. He originaly stated that it was with the stock collapsed, is this the case or is it extended.

[BemidjiDweller]

Sorry, one more question. In the JShuberg write up someone questioned his take on the OAL. He originaly stated that it was with the stock collapsed, is this the case or is it extended.

If it goes along with the way the BATFE measures title 1 firearms, then extended. Though I could be wrong, has happend many times before and will happen many times again.

[Josh189]

Now, to be considered a pistol; is the only defining characteristic the pistol buffer tube? Or is there a max barrel length. I think I heard it was 7" for a pistol, but I am most likely uninformed.

[FJ540]

If you have the barrel long enough, you fall into AOW category without a buttstock. There's lots of variations on this stuff. It's all stupid IMO, but we're left to deal with the gov't we elected.

[Hmac]

OP thanks for asking this question as I have been wondering this myself. For the form 1 you have to know the length of the barrel and the overall length of the build. So if you do not have the components on hand how do you do this? I.e. obviously you can put down the lenght of barrel you plan on buying but with everyone out of stock is it likely you can get the one you plan on? I understand the benefit of building the pistol first but once again if you do not have the SBR stock components on hand to measure, then how do you know? Or just guess based on manufacturers info online?

If you can't get the barrel length you put on the Form 1, just send NFA Branch a notification that you are changing the rifle's permanent configuration and forget about it. You may eventually get an acknowledgement, but it might be a year or more. The acknowledgement isn't necessary, just the letter of notification.

Guessing at the OAL from mfgr's specs should be fine. The ATF is more concerned about whether or not you paid the tax on the weapon than its actual configuration.

Thank you.

On the engraving my understanding is that it is Name and City and State, correct? Is there a publication to look at on the specific requirements? JShubergs right up just reccomended Orion but did not get into specifics.

Also following the Jshuberg write-up, he did not address 4d. If it is from a stripped lower that has no model number listed on it just manufacuturer and SN does one leave this blank?

Like a lot of BATFE regulations based on the NFA, there are subjective interpretations based on examiner to examiner, Director to Director, and Chief to Chief. There isn't much, if any, case law on these issues. The only thing NFA watchers have to go on is a series of multiple opinion and determinations by various NFA Branch Chiefs over the last few years on a lot of these questions. Currently, best and most recent info indicates that the OAL is supposed to be measured with the stock extended. Personally, I have always measured with stock collapsed and they've been approved, but the most recent was two years ago. I sent in another Form 1 in December and measured with stock extended. As to engraving, the rules call for it to be minimum .003 inches deep, minimum font size 1/16 inches tall and placed in a "relatively conspicuous place" that is visible without disassembling the weapon. I usually engrave in the trigger well as Orion Arms shows on their website. As to what to engrave, most recent info seems to indicate that it should be full name (not first initial), city, and state (can use postal abbreviation for state). I've always used my first initial and last name. That one is going to be tough to evaluate right or wrong...you'll never know if you did it right unless you one day actually stumble across an ATF agent and he wants to examine your SBR. Given the ongoing budget problems at BATFE, and especially with the sequester, I consider the chances of an ATF agent out tooling around the countryside on NFA patrol to be highly unlikely. If I ever even see a real live ATF agent in my life, I'll be astounded. My guess...NFA violations are so low on the governments "we gotta fix it" list that running around looking for individual violators is likely an extremely low priority. Maybe that will change if the next mass shooting is done with an SBR, but for now, the NFA is pretty much off the legislative radar screen.

Best publication to start with is the NFA handbook. It can be downloaded from the ATF website at http://www.atf.gov/publications/firearm ... index.html .

As to model number...ATF says the following for manufacturers:

7.4.2 Additional information. Certain additional information must also be conspicuously placed on
the frame, receiver, or barrel of the firearm by engraving, casting, stamping (impressing), that is, they
must be placed in such a manner that they are wholly unobstructed from plain view. For firearms
manufactured on or after January 30, 2002, this information must be to a minimum depth of .003 inch.
The additional information includes:
(1) The model, if such designation has been made;
(2) The caliber or gauge;
(3) The manufacturer’s name (or recognized abbreviation); and
(4) The city and State (or recognized abbreviation) where the manufacturer maintains its place
of business.

So, the mfgr is supposed to designate the model number of the stripped receiver and engrave it.


ETA: It occurs to me that the rule is that you can have any configuation (including various barrel lengths or calibers) on the SBR as long as you retain the parts necessesary to return it to its registered configuration (unless you notify them of a permanent change). So, no matter if you measure with the stock collapsed or extended, you can easily return it to that configuration by simply releasing the lock and sliding the stock to achieve it. I doubt that the OAL you put on the form really matters much.