A comp and defense AR Platorm?

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Re: A comp and defense AR Platorm?

Postby Hmac on Thu Jul 25, 2013 8:05 pm

codilly wrote:Hmmmm didn't know Glocks were over priced for what they are, also never held a Glock with a worse fit and finish than a pistol that's $400 less like I have with every single Colt rifle I have handled. Lets run your Colt dry next to my rifle and see what one binds up first and all I run is Tula, Wolf or Herter's lol . BTW I also go with the cheaper option over a Glock in the XD ;)


Actually, I don't own a Colt rifle.

I'm glad your rifle runs well. Any company can make a good one every now and then, so one-off anecdotes don't really help. Was my point.
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Re: A comp and defense AR Platorm?

Postby UnaStamus on Fri Jul 26, 2013 3:15 am

I think this thread has officially jumped the shark.
Hmac and I were trying to simply offer a reliable alternative as an option and the pundits are freaking out. How about we wait until the OP posts up what he wants and what he is thinking about, otherwise it's all conjecture. Instead of the crowd getting snide and snippy, how about you wait until you get clarification from the OP first?
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Re: A comp and defense AR Platorm?

Postby rugersol on Fri Jul 26, 2013 6:15 am

lizard55033 wrote:I'm looking at getting back into the AR rifles; its been some time.
The use will be just plain fun shoots, defense, as well as possibly entry level 3 gun comps.

I have been looking at either a Stag, Del-Ton, or DPMS. Trying to stay less than or vear $1000

Anyone have any experience with the Stag or Del-Ton?

... seems purdy clear to me!



IOW, ya just want everyone else to shut up, 'til lizard comes back n says ...

OMG! ... I totally want/need a Colt, Noveske, BCM, or DD! ... you guys are so SMART!!!
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Re: A comp and defense AR Platorm?

Postby Hmac on Fri Jul 26, 2013 6:27 am

rugersol wrote:
lizard55033 wrote:I'm looking at getting back into the AR rifles; its been some time.
The use will be just plain fun shoots, defense, as well as possibly entry level 3 gun comps.

I have been looking at either a Stag, Del-Ton, or DPMS. Trying to stay less than or vear $1000

Anyone have any experience with the Stag or Del-Ton?

... seems purdy clear to me!



IOW, ya just want everyone else to shut up, 'til lizard comes back n says ...

OMG! ... I totally want/need a Colt, Noveske, BCM, or DD! ... you guys are so SMART!!!


Well...yeah. There are a lot of people, some of them posting here, that hate to see people new to the AR platform buy a rifle of substandard quality because they don't know any or haven't investigated thoroughly. This is a place for expressing opinions. I acknowledge that your opinion is valid, I just don't agree with it.
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Re: A comp and defense AR Platorm?

Postby lizard55033 on Fri Jul 26, 2013 12:56 pm

shooter115 wrote:explain to me why a well set up 3gun rifle isn't a worthy HD rifle. Let's see ...... absolute requirements for a competition 3 gun rifle.

Reliability is a must.
Accuracy
Quick handling
Designed to engage targets from point blank to a long ass ways.


My thoughts exactly!
I have no issues with my shooting ability of the AR Platform. Shot it for 12 years with the service; consitantly qualifying between 38 and 40 for most of those years. As well as many other fun shoots @ FT Benning.

So I haven't had a chance to get my hands on one in a while; let alone one I can fiddle with and modify to my liking per say. I have never did a full build like some have mentioned; so I would have no idear where to start, whats good, whats bad... yada yada yada...
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Re: A comp and defense AR Platorm?

Postby rugersol on Fri Jul 26, 2013 2:31 pm

lizard55033 wrote:I would have no idear where to start

rugersol wrote:get this bbl ... http://www.midwayusa.com/product/688404/
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Re: A comp and defense AR Platorm?

Postby 10-32 Solutions on Sat Jul 27, 2013 10:24 am

shooter115 wrote:On another note could someone please explain to me why a well set up 3gun rifle isn't a worthy HD rifle.


I have yet to see a dedicated 3-gun rifle that included a means to identify a threat in low-light. Just sayin'. I've seen plenty of HD carbines that shooters can run in 3-Gun and similar competitions.
From lots of comments I've seen in this thread, there is a lot of disconnect. Unastamus and Hmac have well reasoned, well thought out points that they bring up because of actual experience with the matter. The OP can do more with a quality carbine bought with the HD focus, than he can with a carbine built with the 3-Gun focus.

It comes down to focus and what is ultimately more important to the OP.
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Re: A comp and defense AR Platorm?

Postby rugersol on Sat Jul 27, 2013 10:33 am

10-32 Solutions wrote:what is ultimately more important to the OP.


... purdy sure we got that figured out ...

lizard55033 wrote:
shooter115 wrote:absolute requirements for a competition 3 gun rifle.

Reliability is a must.
Accuracy
Quick handling
Designed to engage targets from point blank to a long ass ways.


My thoughts exactly!


Thanks for yer concern, though! ;)
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Re: A comp and defense AR Platorm?

Postby rugersol on Sat Jul 27, 2013 10:35 am

10-32 Solutions wrote:
shooter115 wrote:On another note could someone please explain to me why a well set up 3gun rifle isn't a worthy HD rifle.


I have yet to see a dedicated 3-gun rifle that included a means to identify a threat in low-light. Just sayin'.

Image
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Re: A comp and defense AR Platorm?

Postby 10-32 Solutions on Sat Jul 27, 2013 10:53 am

[quote="rugersol"]...Well ... lessee ... I intend to kill 30 home-invaders in the next 10yr ... figure 3rd - 4rd per invader ... that's bout 100rd for "DEFENSE"

... vs. ... oh, I dunno ... say 4 matches per year ... figure 20rd+ per match ... over 10yr ... oh ya, should probly practice, eh?! :? ... quadruple that! ... 3,200rd for "entry level 3-gun" ... + however many rounds for "fun shoots"!

quote]

Just sayin', I know people that shoot more rounds annually for defensive training purposes than most 3-Gun shooters or plinkers. You can discount "Tactical" shooters all you want, but they have very valid points that can be backed up as well.
Last edited by 10-32 Solutions on Sat Jul 27, 2013 11:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A comp and defense AR Platorm?

Postby 10-32 Solutions on Sat Jul 27, 2013 10:55 am

rugersol wrote:
10-32 Solutions wrote:
shooter115 wrote:On another note could someone please explain to me why a well set up 3gun rifle isn't a worthy HD rifle.


I have yet to see a dedicated 3-gun rifle that included a means to identify a threat in low-light. Just sayin'.

Image


So you don't feel target ID is important.
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Re: A comp and defense AR Platorm?

Postby Hmac on Sat Jul 27, 2013 11:05 am

I gotta try this 3-gun stuff sometime. It apparently generates a lot of unreasoning passion. Must be tons of fun.
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Re: A comp and defense AR Platorm?

Postby Shawski on Sat Jul 27, 2013 11:27 am

Hmac wrote:I gotta try this 3-gun stuff sometime. It apparently generates a lot of unreasoning passion. Must be tons of fun.

Ha, good one
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Re: A comp and defense AR Platorm?

Postby Dave Timm on Mon Jul 29, 2013 11:59 am

Wow this thread has gotten interesting. I'd like to think I have a pretty good grasp on both sides of the "usage" element here. I work full time in LE, teach patrol and defensive/tactical rifle and also complete in 3 gun. Obviously the best scenario is a dedicated rifle for each usage, the saying of the mission drives the gear is true and the best set up for each would be something specific. I know that's not the point of the OP but stay with me. A 3 gun rifle can be very reliable, accurate, and handle a variety of target distances well from close to far with ease. That sounds like great qualities of a home defense (HD) rifle as well. However, a true HD rifle should also have a white light and a sling, and it should not have an obnoxious comp/brake like most dedicated 3 gun rifles do.

The topic of trigger came up and yes some out of the box HD rifles have a generic mil spec type trigger. They are heavier, have more creep and take up but when used properly, especially for local MN matches its not a deal breaker, the best no but can you still go to a local match and have fun, absolutely. My first 3 gun match I shot with my patrol rifle with mil spec trigger and did fine. It was the shotgun part of my first match that really sucked. Now can you buy a nice quality HD rifle, put a good red dot on it and come out to a 3 gun match, yes you can and you will be welcome with open arms and if you can run the rifle you'll do fine. In fact there are more then a few who will be like you and some who do very well with similar type rifles. Some LE guys will use their patrol rifle in local matches and do fine. There is even a class for red dot/no magnification optics.

In regards to a 6920 as was mentioned placing in the top X of a match, I can't say I've ever seen it but its not because it s a bad rifle, its a great rifle and will run and run and run. Is it set up for 3 gun, no its not but even Colt knows this, its a battle type rifle. Most of the top X shooters in 3 gun are really into 3 gun. When you get into something you want to get whats best for the job. Most top X 3 gunners have the best specific gear for 3 gun, set up comp shotguns, pistol, and a rifle thats set up to run 3 gun. An ideal 3 gun rifle has a nice trigger, free float fore end, good barrel, compensator, and optic of your choice. Again all good qualities to have in a rifle and some of which you find on nice HD rifles with the exception being a competition muzzle device instead of a "tactical" muzzle break. I do have separate rifles for game and work, but there are overlapping areas of my patrol rifle and my comp guns. I don't think I would be at a huge disadvantage if I ran my patrol rifle at a local 3 gun match. On that same token, I really don't want to shoot my 3 gun rifle inside my house with no ear pro, its really loud and the concussion from the comp sucks, also no light.

So in short could you set up a nice HD rifle, have fun and practice at a local 3 gun match using the same rifle, yes you can. There were some rifles in this thread that are better then others, before buying take the time to look at specs, material type (steel), testing, and also customer support. Also shameless plug but no one has mentioned a Huldra or Korstog as an option so I will :D .

To the OP, good luck and if you ever want to give 3 gun a try you won't regret it, its a very fun game.

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Re: A comp and defense AR Platorm?

Postby Dave Timm on Mon Jul 29, 2013 12:03 pm

Hmac wrote:I gotta try this 3-gun stuff sometime. It apparently generates a lot of unreasoning passion. Must be tons of fun.


LOL, you should try a match though it is fun, gets you out shooting and provides some challenges. The biggest thing I take away from it is the continuing building skill of how to deliver a round on your target fast while moving, awkward positions, cover/barricades, and the strategy of thinking how to plan your stage. On top of that the challenge of using 3 guns and effectively completely the sub-disciplnes of those 3 guns can make for skill building. I really don't agree with some of the "tactics" in the game, in fact some of it is just down right not tactical at all for LE or home defense, but it has made me a better shooter as the competition adds some stress and you strive to always improve your technique and delivery. I really enjoy the marksmanship skills I have gained from competing.

Just an idea, if you know of a local area where a few like minded guys in the area could shoot we could set up some mini stages and see how you guys like it.
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