Sig brace still worth it?

[photogpat]

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[Ghost]

[UnaStamus]

Pistol braces are not worth it IMO. When the brace was a loophole, most definitely. Just not anymore.

The one exception now is to get around MN's deer hunting laws in the shotgun zone, which -let's face it- are absolutely stupid to begin with anyways. Short of deer hunting, I see no reason for a pistol AR. I see no reason to sacrifice control of the firearm and ballistic performance just so that your barrel can be 4" shorter (for what reason?) or so you don't have to spend $200 on a stamp. I like my SBRs-don't get me wrong. I just can't bring myself to ever use a pistol. If I want a short barrel, I'll just get another NFA stamp so I can put the thing up to my shoulder and shoot it correctly.

There's nothing you can do with an AR pistol that you can't do with a 16" Sig MCX or FN SCAR 16S with the stock folded. At least with them you can fold out the stock and run the rifle more effectively and efficiently.

Just my $0.02, which is worth exactly that.

[photogpat]

My AR pistol in 300BLK has an 8.5" barrel, a Shockwave blade brace, a Law Folding buffer tube adapter -- with my 125gr TNT handloads, I can get 1-1.5 MOA at 100yds...and it fits into a standard backpack.

Having a 5.56 in anything less than 10" is nearly pointless...

[LumberZach]

Pistol braces are not worth it IMO. When the brace was a loophole, most definitely. Just not anymore.

The one exception now is to get around MN's deer hunting laws in the shotgun zone, which -let's face it- are absolutely stupid to begin with anyways. Short of deer hunting, I see no reason for a pistol AR. I see no reason to sacrifice control of the firearm and ballistic performance just so that your barrel can be 4" shorter (for what reason?) or so you don't have to spend $200 on a stamp. I like my SBRs-don't get me wrong. I just can't bring myself to ever use a pistol. If I want a short barrel, I'll just get another NFA stamp so I can put the thing up to my shoulder and shoot it correctly.

There's nothing you can do with an AR pistol that you can't do with a 16" Sig MCX or FN SCAR 16S with the stock folded. At least with them you can fold out the stock and run the rifle more effectively and efficiently.

Just my $0.02, which is worth exactly that.

So you think the sig or the scar is more worthwhile than a pistol? How about compared to a carbine length AR? Or an Law tactical folder?
I have a pistol ordered already and the tax stamp is becoming very enticing, but I think I'll just start with the brace.

Also, while I have your attention what do you think of pistol vs nfa for self defense. It's hard for me to ignore that I can technically carry the pistol but if it become a sbr with a stamp it's no longer viable. Again, I don't plan on carrying it, but having the option is appealing to me.


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[andrewP]

It might be beneficial to think in terms of what you'll actually do vs what you theoretically could do. What's the true purpose of this gun? Range toy? Fine, if you've got the money, have fun! Deer hunting in a shotgun zone as mentioned above? Go for it. Home defense? Wouldn't you rather have a stock? SHTF? Wouldn't you rather have a stock? Literally anything else you might do with an AR? Wouldn't you rather have a stock? See where this is going?

I am not a lawyer, the following is not legal advice and is worth exactly what you paid for it:

As far as the NFA/self defense thing goes, my understanding is that if it's a good shoot, it's a good shoot, and if it's a bad shoot, it's a bad shoot. There's nothing inherently illegal about using an NFA gun (or a cannon, or a greatsword, or whatever weird weapon you can think of) in that manner. That said, if it comes to trial, the prosecution might try to make you look bad based on your choice of gun, and that's something you and your lawyer would need to be aware of and prepared to counter.

[Bearcatrp]

Nice thing about a short barreled AR with a sig brace is movement in tight areas vs a carbine length rifle. Range is limited if using outdoors but only the person using it knows why they got it and how they plan on using it. My 308 short barrel is a 300 yard or less shooter as far as accuracy is concerned. Can go out further but accuracy is diminished significantly. But the energy up close is pretty high. To each his own. Shot what your comfortable with. Know its limitations.

[crbutler]

As someone who has one, it was ever really "worth it"- it came with my AR pistol, and while it is there, resting the gun on a bag makes way more improvement than the brace.

[TooFewGuns]

Pistol braces are not worth it IMO. When the brace was a loophole, most definitely. Just not anymore.

The one exception now is to get around MN's deer hunting laws in the shotgun zone, which -let's face it- are absolutely stupid to begin with anyways. Short of deer hunting, I see no reason for a pistol AR. I see no reason to sacrifice control of the firearm and ballistic performance just so that your barrel can be 4" shorter (for what reason?) or so you don't have to spend $200 on a stamp. I like my SBRs-don't get me wrong. I just can't bring myself to ever use a pistol. If I want a short barrel, I'll just get another NFA stamp so I can put the thing up to my shoulder and shoot it correctly.

There's nothing you can do with an AR pistol that you can't do with a 16" Sig MCX or FN SCAR 16S with the stock folded. At least with them you can fold out the stock and run the rifle more effectively and efficiently.

Just my $0.02, which is worth exactly that.

Is there a rule that limits the length of a pistol? Couldn't you have an AR pistol with a 16" barrel for hunting?

[andrewP]

Is there a rule that limits the length of a pistol? Couldn't you have an AR pistol with a 16" barrel for hunting?

IIRC there's some weird thing about the overall length, and if it's more than X inches long, it's neither a pistol nor a rifle, but an "any other weapon," or some such. I have no idea whatsoever about what that does to its eligibility for hunting in restricted zones.

[OldmanFCSA]

I'm not sure how I would conceal one

Soon we'll see you asking about who makes the best trench coat.

You need the coat Sylvester Stallone wore in the movie "Cobra".

[JJ]

Is there a rule that limits the length of a pistol? Couldn't you have an AR pistol with a 16" barrel for hunting?

IIRC there's some weird thing about the overall length, and if it's more than X inches long, it's neither a pistol nor a rifle, but an "any other weapon," or some such. I have no idea whatsoever about what that does to its eligibility for hunting in restricted zones.

"Pistol" includes a weapon designed to be fired by the use of a single hand and with an overall length less than 26 inches, or having a barrel or barrels of a length less than 18 inches in the case of a shotgun or having a barrel of a length less than 16 inches in the case of a rifle (1) from which may be fired or ejected one or more solid projectiles by means of a cartridge or shell or by the action of an explosive or the igniting of flammable or explosive substances; or (2) for which the propelling force is a spring, elastic band, carbon dioxide, air or other gas, or vapor. https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/?id=624.712

I would have to look for the exact description, but at the Federal level, anything over 26" becomes "Other"(see Franklin Armory X-26). Not a pistol, not a rifle. This gets into nuanced NFA law, and depending on configuration you can easily get an AR to fall into SBR, AOW, pistol, rifle, or other with very minor differences.

[yuppiejr]

My opinion - the cost of the SIG Brace runs $150ish new, tax stamp on an SBR runs $200. Unless you are specifically interested in the pistol/handgun classification for hunting opportunities, I'd just build a proper SBR and not screw with the risk/"nuance" of building an AR pistol with a Sig Brace and hope you don't win the "lets make an example of someone" lottery with the ATF. Now that suppressors are legal to own and use in the state I'm sure a lot more gun owners are establishing NFA trusts which is also handy for registering an SBR (which might just pair really well with said suppressor...).

The product was interesting when it first came out; then enough people yanked the ATF's tail asking for an "immunity" letter to put the product squarely on their enforcement radar. IMHO - not worth screwing with unless you are one of the very small minority of owners actually strapping the thing to your forearm because of a physical disability.

[gaberelli]

My opinion - the cost of the SIG Brace runs $150ish new, tax stamp on an SBR runs $200. Unless you are specifically interested in the pistol/handgun classification for hunting opportunities, I'd just build a proper SBR and not screw with the risk/"nuance" of building an AR pistol with a Sig Brace and hope you don't win the "lets make an example of someone" lottery with the ATF. Now that suppressors are legal to own and use in the state I'm sure a lot more gun owners are establishing NFA trusts which is also handy for registering an SBR (which might just pair really well with said suppressor...).

The product was interesting when it first came out; then enough people yanked the ATF's tail asking for an "immunity" letter to put the product squarely on their enforcement radar. IMHO - not worth screwing with unless you are one of the very small minority of owners actually strapping the thing to your forearm because of a physical disability.

I agree with most of this but the $$ part is a bit off for me. Brace runs around $100 but as low as $50 and the NFA option needs to add at least $50 because now you need a stock if your aren't filing for an existing rifle. So NFA item equals $250 and arm brace around $100.

With that said, I am a proponent for having BOTH! Being able to travel more easily with the pistol plays a role in addition to opening up hunting options in MN. If I were to only have one, I would start with pistol and add a separate SBR as funds allow. If you are scared about the whole "stock" issue on a pistol, just skip it and leave the tube there for cheek weld.


Heinous typos thanks to autocorrect.

[UnaStamus]

So you think the sig or the scar is more worthwhile than a pistol? How about compared to a carbine length AR? Or an Law tactical folder?
I have a pistol ordered already and the tax stamp is becoming very enticing, but I think I'll just start with the brace.

Also, while I have your attention what do you think of pistol vs nfa for self defense. It's hard for me to ignore that I can technically carry the pistol but if it become a sbr with a stamp it's no longer viable. Again, I don't plan on carrying it, but having the option is appealing to me.


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It all depends on what you plan to do with the weapon. If it's purely for novelty and as a range toy, then it's really a moot argument because you can get whatever you want with your own money. The problem is that I saw a lot of people getting these things when the ATF sent the original letter out that you can shoulder the Sig brace, as it was a loophole to the SBR stamp. That loophole has since closed (not surprisingly), so now you have a bunch of people who have pistol ARs that they bought and equipped to be used as rifles, and are now back to using them as pistols.

Shooting at close range is fine, but long range shooting with them is problematic. Ballistics on most of these pistols suck because they have super short barrels. This is important for home defense ammo selection and whatnot, but it also plays a role in target shooting and training at longer ranges. Then you add to it the restrictions about attaching accessories and what accessories you can and can't use, as it can become an AOW. It's just a pain in the sack.

I mentioned the Sig MCX and SCAR because they can be fired with the stocks folded. If people want that super compact platform that they can fire like a pistol, you can do that with those rifles. In close quarters vehicle defense, this can be a benefit. You then can fold out the stock and use it like a normal rifle.
A 16" barreled rifle is not difficult to use in close quarters. You have to know how to do it, but it's not difficult. Now, yes it's much easier to use an SBR. I have cleared houses using a 10.39" HK416, 9" HK G36C and an 11.5" Franken-AR. All are much better for clearing through tight spaces. However, I've also used 14.5" and 16" carbines and it's not really that much different. When you get into vehicle deployment, that's an entirely other issue however, but a discussion for another day.

As for carrying a rifle for self defense in the everyday world, it's not feasible. Rifles are slower to deploy from a non-ready position than a pistol, and they're easier to disarm or neutralize or take out of a fight by someone grabbing it and pulling it (regardless of the sling being used). It's just an unwieldy object to lug around for the average person, and it's going to cause alarm and draw attention to yourself. If you get one that small enough to conceal under a jacket, it's going to have a very short barrel that is going to limit your ammo selection. For 5.56, there is only one bullet that is capable of functioning adequately out of a super short barrel 5.56 (under 9"), and only 4-5 loads that work in barrels from 9-11.5". If you choose .300BLK or 6.8 you have other options, but again very limited.

I think anyone carrying a rifle or rifle pistol (AR pistol, Sig 556 pistol, etc) for personal protection is doing it for attention. This is fine with a pro-gun rally with thousands of other people at the Capitol, but contrary to what some people think, the local Wally World or grocery store is the wrong place to make a statement with a gun.