The Truth about 6.5 Ammo

[Holland&Holland]

I thought we were talking facts, like how the state of Utah requires 500 ft lbs of energy for elk. You know less than half the energy of a Grendel at 400 yards.

So now the guberment is your authority on common sense? Good luck with that.

In MN a .25 ACP is legal to take deer. I better get a scope on my raven for this fall.

[acs75]

[quote="yukonjasper"]it does seem as though this discussion is challenging a lot of preconceived notions or folklore behind what minimum calibers can be used at what distance for what game. I think there are a lot of people who just believe what they believe and aren't interested in be challenged to the point where they begin to question what they have always "known" to be the "truth". I do believe that experience is worth something which is why I respect those who take umbrage with the 6.5 Grendel stance that it is closer to a 308 than most thought and in some ways superior to a 308.

I am definitely closer to making the Complete Upper purchase for the Upper I have in the safe. Question now seems to be what level of upper do I need $300 or $900?

Hunting game with anything less than a $900 upper is unethical. They have to be cutting corners somewhere to keep the cost down, what if it's on QC? What if they didn't tighten the barrel all the way on? What if you pull the trigger and the barrel unscrews slightly before the bullet exits the barrel and you wound the deer? You are the unethical one who will have to live with the unethical ramifications of that unethical decision.

Another quality post Erud. Thanks for your valuable opinion on this discussion.

Anytime buddy, I'm here to help![/quote]


Erud what's your opinion on what these two have wrote. I'm very interested in your insight on this. Since you seem to have opinion on what's ethical. Please enlighten us

[Erud]

I think I explained my point in the 2nd post on page 2, please refer back to that. The 10 pages since then have been pure internet gold.

[acs75]

I think I explained my point in the 2nd post on page 2, please refer back to that. The 10 pages since then have been pure internet gold.

Sounds about right

But you just had a very interesting thought what's ethical when buying upper. Pretty passionate

I always enjoy hearing opinions from guys like you. Your knowledge is unquantifiable. Thank You

[Erud]

I think I explained my point in the 2nd post on page 2, please refer back to that. The 10 pages since then have been pure internet gold.

Sounds about right

But you just had a very interesting thought what's ethical when buying upper. Pretty passionate

I'm afraid you have mistaken sarcasm for passion. Sorry for the confusion.

[acs75]

I think I explained my point in the 2nd post on page 2, please refer back to that. The 10 pages since then have been pure internet gold.

Sounds about right

But you just had a very interesting thought what's ethical when buying upper. Pretty passionate

I'm afraid you have mistaken sarcasm for passion. Sorry for the confusion.

No mistake buddy. I'm just here to help. Just like you

[Ghost]

Utah requires 500 ft lbs at 100 yards with a minimum of .24 caliber in a handgun. Rifle is any center fire.

Ok. Legal is a .17 hornet rifle. Don't be stupid.

How many elk have you shot? How much money would be sufficient for hunt cost before you would start moving up from a 6.5 Grendel (meaning a guided hunt where most outfitters say if you draw blood, that's your animal, you are done with a wounded bull)?

The Grendel is a good long range steel swatter, a good all around deer/pronghorn round, but a marginal elk round, and in my opinion, an unethical long range elk round. It's also not a moose cartridge. Yes it can kill anything that walks, as can a .22 short... but that does not make it a good hunting round.

Before you trot out that canard about Europeans and the 6.5x55, remember that the European moose is about 70% the size of a Alaskan or Siberian moose, they are shot at very close range, and they are generally hunting with dogs (elghunds) so a wounded animal is almost always found. The 6.5 when used on moose is generally with a 160 grain bullet, which is also a bit out of the range of the Grendel's oal.

As to which upper, whichever works better for you. The cheap one may shoot well, while the expensive one may be so so. Personally, I have found you generally get what you pay for, but then again, fortunately for me $200 on my hunting rifle is not a matter of significant debate so I am not the guy to ask about budget choices.

From what I am seeing, yukonjasper is after an AR deer and maybe pronghorn gun as a range rifle. The Grendel will work excellently for that. I realize most are not going to do the level and amount of traveling hunting I do, which colors my thinking a bit, but of the new guys I see in elk hunts, all of them are hauling new .300 or .338s so it seems that if you can afford the $5000 for the hunt, you can afford a new gun for elk. All of the guys I have met hunting elk with a Grendel (all one of them) were industry comped writers. What he wrote was rather different than what I heard from the guide, and that really colors my thinking on that rifle choice. I will go so far as to say even if you paid for me to hunt elk or moose with a Grendel, I would not. I have too much respect for the animal.

I'm not an elk hunter nor would I take a Grendel for elk, I never said I would.

Yes, moose in Scandinavia are about 70% the size of an Alaskan and trust me I've been within 20 feet of Alaskan so I realize how big they are, they even came up and licked the windows of our cabin. So Scandinavian moose are about the size of an elk. I just bought moose in the store while in Norway, way easier than hunting.

The other thing to note on Scandinavia is that they did a study to see how far moose went after being shot and interestingly it was the .40+ caliber first followed by the 6.5's and 7's, the .300's ranked last as in the moose traveled the furthest after being shot.

[Holland&Holland]

Utah requires 500 ft lbs at 100 yards with a minimum of .24 caliber in a handgun. Rifle is any center fire.

Ok. Legal is a .17 hornet rifle. Don't be stupid.

How many elk have you shot? How much money would be sufficient for hunt cost before you would start moving up from a 6.5 Grendel (meaning a guided hunt where most outfitters say if you draw blood, that's your animal, you are done with a wounded bull)?

The Grendel is a good long range steel swatter, a good all around deer/pronghorn round, but a marginal elk round, and in my opinion, an unethical long range elk round. It's also not a moose cartridge. Yes it can kill anything that walks, as can a .22 short... but that does not make it a good hunting round.

Before you trot out that canard about Europeans and the 6.5x55, remember that the European moose is about 70% the size of a Alaskan or Siberian moose, they are shot at very close range, and they are generally hunting with dogs (elghunds) so a wounded animal is almost always found. The 6.5 when used on moose is generally with a 160 grain bullet, which is also a bit out of the range of the Grendel's oal.

As to which upper, whichever works better for you. The cheap one may shoot well, while the expensive one may be so so. Personally, I have found you generally get what you pay for, but then again, fortunately for me $200 on my hunting rifle is not a matter of significant debate so I am not the guy to ask about budget choices.

From what I am seeing, yukonjasper is after an AR deer and maybe pronghorn gun as a range rifle. The Grendel will work excellently for that. I realize most are not going to do the level and amount of traveling hunting I do, which colors my thinking a bit, but of the new guys I see in elk hunts, all of them are hauling new .300 or .338s so it seems that if you can afford the $5000 for the hunt, you can afford a new gun for elk. All of the guys I have met hunting elk with a Grendel (all one of them) were industry comped writers. What he wrote was rather different than what I heard from the guide, and that really colors my thinking on that rifle choice. I will go so far as to say even if you paid for me to hunt elk or moose with a Grendel, I would not. I have too much respect for the animal.

I'm not an elk hunter nor would I take a Grendel for elk, I never said I would.

Yes, moose in Scandinavia are about 70% the size of an Alaskan and trust me I've been within 20 feet of Alaskan so I realize how big they are, they even came up and licked the windows of our cabin. So Scandinavian moose are about the size of an elk. I just bought moose in the store while in Norway, way easier than hunting.

The other thing to note on Scandinavia is that they did a study to see how far moose went after being shot and interestingly it was the .40+ caliber first followed by the 6.5's and 7's, the .300's ranked last as in the moose traveled the furthest after being shot.

I would like to see that study, please post.

I did not realize they allowed ARs in Scandinavia.

[Ghost]

Utah requires 500 ft lbs at 100 yards with a minimum of .24 caliber in a handgun. Rifle is any center fire.

Ok. Legal is a .17 hornet rifle. Don't be stupid.

How many elk have you shot? How much money would be sufficient for hunt cost before you would start moving up from a 6.5 Grendel (meaning a guided hunt where most outfitters say if you draw blood, that's your animal, you are done with a wounded bull)?

The Grendel is a good long range steel swatter, a good all around deer/pronghorn round, but a marginal elk round, and in my opinion, an unethical long range elk round. It's also not a moose cartridge. Yes it can kill anything that walks, as can a .22 short... but that does not make it a good hunting round.

Before you trot out that canard about Europeans and the 6.5x55, remember that the European moose is about 70% the size of a Alaskan or Siberian moose, they are shot at very close range, and they are generally hunting with dogs (elghunds) so a wounded animal is almost always found. The 6.5 when used on moose is generally with a 160 grain bullet, which is also a bit out of the range of the Grendel's oal.

As to which upper, whichever works better for you. The cheap one may shoot well, while the expensive one may be so so. Personally, I have found you generally get what you pay for, but then again, fortunately for me $200 on my hunting rifle is not a matter of significant debate so I am not the guy to ask about budget choices.

From what I am seeing, yukonjasper is after an AR deer and maybe pronghorn gun as a range rifle. The Grendel will work excellently for that. I realize most are not going to do the level and amount of traveling hunting I do, which colors my thinking a bit, but of the new guys I see in elk hunts, all of them are hauling new .300 or .338s so it seems that if you can afford the $5000 for the hunt, you can afford a new gun for elk. All of the guys I have met hunting elk with a Grendel (all one of them) were industry comped writers. What he wrote was rather different than what I heard from the guide, and that really colors my thinking on that rifle choice. I will go so far as to say even if you paid for me to hunt elk or moose with a Grendel, I would not. I have too much respect for the animal.

I'm not an elk hunter nor would I take a Grendel for elk, I never said I would.

Yes, moose in Scandinavia are about 70% the size of an Alaskan and trust me I've been within 20 feet of Alaskan so I realize how big they are, they even came up and licked the windows of our cabin. So Scandinavian moose are about the size of an elk. I just bought moose in the store while in Norway, way easier than hunting.

The other thing to note on Scandinavia is that they did a study to see how far moose went after being shot and interestingly it was the .40+ caliber first followed by the 6.5's and 7's, the .300's ranked last as in the moose traveled the furthest after being shot.

I would like to see that study, please post.

I did not realize they allowed ARs in Scandinavia.

I'll find the link tomorrow, AR's are irrelevant as 6.5's are not just AR's.

[yukonjasper]

The $900 upper was a 24" barrel with Over watch in the title. So I assume it was tricked out as a sniper optimized tacticool super accurate match grade something or other.

New complexity is Grendel vs. Grender II. Trying to study up on that.

Found it. I guess it was only $849.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1003426821/alexander-arms-ar-15-overwatch-a3-upper-receiver-assembly-65-grendel-24-barrel

[Holland&Holland]

I'll find the link tomorrow, AR's are irrelevant as 6.5's are not just AR's.

Yes, but you are using this as evidence that the Grendal performs at this level. The grendal is not in the same performance category as the creedmore, the .260 or even a hunting round in Swede.

Get your story straight.

[acs75]

Ghost not sure why you are Again forgetting about what You wrote.

Unlike you and my new BFF Erud. I do read the whole post. Here are couple of yours. Just to clarify your stance on 6.5 grendal

[acs75]

My bad myth not wisdom I meant. Referring to your comment on the myth


It seems that there is a myth that a 300 win mag makes a bad shot better and more ethical.

Read my posts again

It's been said in this thread that a hunter can get by with a bad shot if using a 300 win mag. They are harder to shoot, some people will flinch or anticipate recoil. They are heavier so if you're carrying it a lot you may be more fatigued.

With a Grendel you can have a lighter package, mild recoil and you won't even come off target watching through the scope. There are videos of a 14 year old girl on YouTube taking all kinds of animals out west, including elk.

The Grendel is ballistically similar to a traditionally loaded 6.5 swede, a caliber that has been used for a century killing moose. Grand slam hunter Bob Stokes converted to 6.5's, and wrote the intro to Grendel handbook 2 on hunting, after watching 6.5's kill a couple hundred animals while guiding in Alaska. He previously thought 375 H&H was the minimum needed for Alaska.

W.D.M. Bell killed 300 elephants with a 6.5mm 149gr FMJ.

It all comes down to shot placement. Shot placement is the key to hunting, a deer heart won't know if a 6.5 or a 300WM round goes through it. A 6.5 will go through it.

And it goes back to what I've been saying the Grendel is efficient and does what it needs to if placed well. The 678 yard white tail kill was a through and through.

Here you are comparing the grendal to other 6.5's. Giving the indication that the 6.5 grendal will run with them. Which I (we) have disagreed on

[acs75]

You also have on a couple occasions said the grendal will run with the 308.

[acs75]

I'm not advocating that people shoot beyond their skill level.

Many whitetails have been taken in the 300-500 yard range. Elk 400+.

Longest kill I know of was 752 yards that DRT'd an antelope with a high shoulder spine shot and complete pass through.

Hog hunters have been lining them up and getting two for ones at triple digit ranges.

The 6.5 bullets are extremely efficient and highly effective they don't need high speed.[/quote]

For some reason Tapatalk isn't quoting correctly.




You said and I quote
"Many whitetails have been taken in the 300-500 yard range. Elk 400+."