Which AR?

[JoeH]

First let me state that I know diddly squat about ARs (that will be obvious if you read further).

I'd like an AR15. But I need an AR15 education so I buy the right one. Can someone give me the ABCs of the AR15?

What's the difference between the AR15 A1, A2, A3, and A4?
What are the pros/cons of the carbine versus the standard?
What's a flat top upper receiver?
What else?

Thanks!

[hammAR]

Joe..first I am not trying to be an elitist but I will give you the following general information as well as a site for you to read. Once you have read these, then we can talk more..............

The AR-15 is based on the 7.62mm AR-10, designed by Eugene Stoner of the Fairchild ArmaLite corporation.[1] The AR-15 was developed as a lighter, 5.56mm version of the AR-10. The "AR" in AR-15 comes from the ArmaLite name, not "assault rifle" as is commonly believed; ArmaLite's AR-1, AR-5, and some subsequent models were bolt action rifles, and there are shotguns and pistols whose model numbers also include the "AR" prefix.[1] ArmaLite sold its rights to the AR-10 and AR-15 to Colt in 1959. Colt marketed the AR-15 rifle to various military services around the world, including the U.S. Air Force, Army, and Marine Corps. The AR-15 was eventually adopted by the United States military under the designation M16. However, Colt continued to use the AR-15 trademark for its semi-automatic variants (AR-15, AR-15A2) marketed to civilian and law-enforcement customers. The original AR-15 was a very lightweight weapon, weighing less than 6 pounds with empty magazine, though later heavy-barrel versions of the civilian AR-15 can weigh upwards of 8.5 lbs.

Today the civilian-model AR-15 and its variations are manufactured by many companies and have captured the affection of sport shooters and police forces around the world due to their low cost, accuracy, and modularity. (Please refer to the M16 for a more complete history of the development and evolution of the AR-15 and derivatives.)

The trademark "AR15" or "AR-15" is registered to Colt Industries, which maintains that the term should only be used to refer to their products. Other manufacturers make AR-15 clones marketed under separate designations, although colloquially, these are sometimes also referred to by the term "AR-15".

Alll of your initial and many more questions will be answered here:
http://groups.msn.com/TheMarylandAR15ShootersSite/ar15faq.msnw

What is an A1, A2, A3, A4?
http://groups.msn.com/TheMarylandAR15ShootersSite/whatisana1a2a3ora4.msnw

Please come back and we can finish this discussion.......thanks!

.

[Aceq2jot]

I will try to help a bit I dont really know that much about them but i Own a DPMS AP4 Carbine http://www.dpmsinc.com/firearms/5.56x45 ... rbine.aspx. I bought i and it because it is made in St cloud, +plus it had the removable handle to convert it to a flat top, so i could just slide an optic on to it. It has been a lot of fun to shoot but i just shoot paper as of late. Many people have suggested the smith and wesson M&P 15T as it is made to military specs.

Pinnacle is a good source to ask. There are many of us who own assault rifles it just depends on what you want to do with it I will tell ya Ammo is getting expensive. I hoarded a couple of thousand rounds a while back and punch paper sparringly.

[cobb]

There are many of us who own assault rifles it just depends on what you want to do with it

Not me, I own two black rifles though.

[hammAR]

Didn't read the article did you Ace...........

The "AR" in AR-15 comes from the ArmaLite name, not "assault rifle" as is commonly believed;

[Aceq2jot]

There are many of us who own assault rifles it just depends on what you want to do with it

Not me, I own two black rifles though.

Of course we all own them for a certain reason I am waiting for certain Ethnic groups to cause trouble and i can have free for all, thats what i tell the wife I find it a pretty good Intimidation tool when the neighbors are acting up i just walk out slam a mag in and take it to the patio table and break it down and clean it

There are several uses for one And the list goes on.

[BRIT_in_the_weeds]

Joe, do you want an AR-15 clone of any number of flavours or do you want an Evil Black Rifle.
(which can be one and the same) but can also be VERY different.

What are you going to do with it.
Is it a SHTF gun you want, or something to hang baubles on.(Lights, lasers,reflex sights, vertical grip)
Is .223/5.56 the ammo you want to shoot.
Is it a semi-auto battle rifle you want or a 400yd prairie dog atomiser.

Joe, THERE ARE NO STUPID QUESTIONS. Tap into the knowledge that is on this board.

So...........ask away

[Spartan117]

First let me state that I know diddly squat about ARs (that will be obvious if you read further).

I'd like an AR15. But I need an AR15 education so I buy the right one. Can someone give me the ABCs of the AR15?

What's the difference between the AR15 A1, A2, A3, and A4?
What are the pros/cons of the carbine versus the standard?
What's a flat top upper receiver?
What else?

Thanks!

An A1 and A2 are very similar. Both have built-in carry handle mounted rear sights. The A2 is a newer variant of the rear sight. An A3/A4 (called different things by different manufacturers) is a flat top. This means that where the carry handle is on an A1 or A2, there is instead a picatinny rail which can be used to mount various optics or a removable carry handle.

Aside from the 150ish fps of velocity loss, the carbine length is generally considered a reliable system. The military M4 is a carbine length, while the M16 is rifle length. Some believe carbines are less reliable because there is higher pressure on the bolt due to the shorter gas system. I have three ARs, two carbines and a mid-length. A mid-length is in between a carbine and a rifle. It addresses the pressure issues and provides a slightly smoother action.

As far as brands go, there are quite a few good ones out there. Colt (expensive...) Bushmaster, Rock River Arms and LMT are a few. Some people have had good luck with DPMS recently, although they seem a little cheap in the fit and finish area to me. I've also heard of (not first hand so...) bolts breaking and poor fit internals. Stay away from Hesse, Vulcan and Blackthorne and you should be good.

I prefer the flattop upper because it's a lot more versatile. Mounting optics on top of a carry handle puts them up pretty high. The AR15 platform is nearly infinitely variable, so look around at what others have done before you buy. Check out ar15.com, there is a lot of information there.

You won't regret adding an AR to your collection, they're great guns!

[Erud]

Hi Joe,
Sounds like this is your first AR, so I'll give you the advice I wish someone had given me when I was shopping for my first. Get an A2 with a fixed carry handle, take it to the next NRA High Power match and learn to shoot with iron sights. Then go to more matches and watch how the really good guys shoot. There are tons of nice folks that will help you along and you will be light-years ahead of the average guy with an AR as far as shooting skills go. It is not tactical type shooting but IMHO, there is no better way to build up your shooting fundamentals with an AR. Nothing wrong with a rifle with all of the bells & whistles, (I have those too) but you will be better with any gun if you learn to shoot properly first. I think a lot of people get an AR, put a big scope on it and then just put it on a sandbag and try to shoot tiny groups with it. Kinda fun, but not terribly productive. Here's a link to the summer HP schedule on the Minnesota Rifle and Revolver Association's site - they are the governing body for HP in MN:

http://mrra.org/hipower.htm

Good luck,
Erud

[Pinnacle]

I spent some considerable time shooting an AR-15 for a couple of classes out in the desert here were some of the observations on what I thought worked and what I thought didnt work -

Firstly - If I had it to do over again I would build the lightest in weight rifle that I could reasonably rig out with A2 style adjustable sights or a flat top with an optic of very slight magnification. (no more than 3X) to take advantage of the rifles capabilities - yeah you can hit out to 400 with an EBR - if your eyes are up to the task.

I would have a BUIS system on the rifle for close in quick work - optics are really not necessary but are certainly nice.

I would get the Collapsible stock and a single point sling adapter placed on the rifle.

I had a yankee hill free float tube handguard on mine - never again - TOO HEAVY to swing around all day. A POF is lighter - and YOU MUST get the handguards or your hands will get eaten up.

A tactical Latch was a nice feature - this goes on in about 15 seconds - costs $15 - well worth it.

I will never own another gas tube AR - rod guns only thank you - gas guns get too gummy and are a nightmare to clean after a ton of shooting in a bad climate.

good thing that I have a buddy making rod gun conversions ($425 Retail when they come out.)

Somewhere there is the perfect AR - I am still looking for it - as are we all - the sky is the limit....

[jem375]

I own 2 DPMS's and I doubt if I will buy another brand, local company that makes great rifles and great customer service.

[JoeH]

Thanks for the great replies. I can tell that this is a passionate subject... I like it!

To answer a few of your questions:

Yes, I think that .223 is the caliber for me (is it interchangeable with the 5.56?).
I'm interested in a SHTF, TEOLAWKI, CQB gun. Therefore I'm leaning towards a carbine.
It sounds like the A3/A4 would be best. Starting out with the handle and iron sights, I could add optics later.

I have a Tikka T3 .270 WSM if I need to reach out and touch something.

I guess that I'm starting to succumb to the thought that the Dems may take these guns off the market if they win the Presidency in 08. I know this line of thinking is keeping companies like DPMS very busy these days.

[Spartan117]

Most ARs are chambered in 5.56mm, which is compatible with .223 rem. 5.56 is a slightly larger, higher preasure round, which means that stepping down to .223 is not a problem. A rifle chambered in .223 will not be able to safely (if at all) fire a 5.56mm round.

In my opinion, for SHTF, an optic is a must, simply for the fact that irons are nearly useless to most shooters in the dark. I use an Aimpoint (the military's M68) CompM2. It's a 1X optic, which means that eye relief is infinate and you can keep both eyes open. Eotechs are another option like that, although they're a little bulky in my opinion. Optics like Aimpoints and Eotechs are the natural evolution of the battle sight. Of course, it's also important to have a working BUIS in case your optic fails or runs out of battery (my Aimpoint will last three years of continuous use on a single battery, the new M4 will last 8...).

As far as piston ARs, the jury is still out. I've heard loss of accuracy is common with conversions and even some proprietary systems. People seem to have the best things to say about POF and LWC. Bushmaster is making one now, but they haven't been out for long. Good ol' DI is good enough for me for now, my CMMG hasn't so much as coughed with over 1.5k rounds through it. Yes, it needs to be cleaned from time to time, but it's not that bad.

[Pinnacle]

Aimpoints seemingly are a little trimmer - I had an EoTech on my gun - they are heavy and it seems that the batteries do not last that long.

I personally do not care for EoTech sights - I like knobs and not buttons to run the brightness and the on and off is tricky a two handed deal for me.

A good SHTF Gun for me anyways would be an iron sighted gun - iron sights never run out of batteries - the one thing that I would recommend is a rail on the botom of the handguard for a light. That is about the only thing that I would add to a gun

My next AR is going to be the lightest gun that I can build - if I want another configuration - all that I have to do is switch uppers - that is the absolute beauty of an AR

Keep in mind I do not really like AR's - they are fun to shoot and a good tool as long as you keep them clean and maintained. May I recommend a teflon Nickel bolt treatment - makes cleaning easier and seems to make the gun function better and it is not expensive at all to do if we get a lot of people together.

Get a set of extra rings - and a spare parts kit - about $22 and it will keep you up and running if in fact the SHTF and you break something.

An AR is one of those guns like a Glock - they are simple to work on and you can do it. Very simple.

[plblark]

you people are incredibly hard on a fella's budget, you know that. Thanks for the info though. I'm probably a couple years from an AR build if the Dems don't axe it first of course.

/me is feeling stupid it took so long to decypher BUIS as Back Up Iron Sight system.