Thoughts on Enfield No. 4 Mk 1 for a project rifle

[Holland&Holland]

Thoughts on this rifle in general?

A few years ago you could find these everywhere for about $140. I always wanted to take one and "sporterize" it with a custom wood stock, reblue it. not certain what else. Fleet Farm now has a batch from century. From what I have read this particular model seems like a good solid rifle for a project. Not particularly collectable like and SMLE so not destrying too much history.

Reason, Gramps had a sproterized Enfield made for him by a smith after WWII. Hunted all over the UP, Nodak, and even took an elk out west somewheres. I always hoped that when he went to his final hunting grounds he might leave it to me to remember him by. Well, a few years ago someone broke into his house while they were down south for the winter and that dream is history (they also got his favorite a lever winchester in .218 Bee but that is another story). Anyway, as I said always thought I might try to recreate this in a way, not match his mind you, but similar, would like to try to do a fancier stock and inlay a coin into the butt. (Grampa also was a coin collector and a few years ago he gave everyone in the family a few, and just asked that we not sell them until after he was buried, of course I will never sell them, my kids may, who knows) Putting one of his coins in it and then presenting it to him. I doubt he would shoot it much as he has not hunted in a years due to arthritis, but I think it would bring him a bit of joy for the next few years. Call it a tribute rifle, I do not know maybe it is my version of a tatoo.

Anyway, looking for thoughts on this rifle and reccomendations on local serices for stock making and rebluing, barrel recrowning, etc.

[1911fan]

More than likely, the gun your relative had was a P17 Enfield Pattern., not a SMLE, No4 Mk1. Completely different rifles, This is a P17, a more mauser style action. front lugs, 5 round fixed magazine .30/06 caliber.


This is a British lee enfield, short magazine rifle,. No4 mk1 303 British caliber. 10 round detachable mag.

[Paul]

Why do you assume, based on the information at hand, that the rifle was a P17, and not a true Enfield?

[Holland&Holland]

I had shot it many times and while I am not certain which model it is, it is not the P17. It has the classic Enfield box mag as well as the stock with the big peice of metal seperating it in the grip. The barrel had been cut down to 20 inches but I think on my version I will try to leave as long as feasible.

[1911fan]

Two main reasons, One, Post WW2 you could get .30/06 ammo and the availability of the P17 enfield pattern (which was made in the US in massive numbers, During ww1 it was made because it was faster to make, easier to make and stronger than the o3 springfield. Some 2.5 million were produced, a half million each by Winchester and Remington, and another million four or so produced by the Eddystone factory in Penn which was built by Remington just to build this and the P14 rifle, which was a very similar, (really nearly identical except for the changes needed to feed a rimmed .303 british cartridge reliably.) which also led me to an earlier mistake, the .303 P14 held 5 rounds in the well, the 30/06 P17 held 6. Sorry. brain fart.

I have seen a great many enfield P series rifles converted to sporters, Many Many of these were cherished Winchesters, which often claimed a $300 dollar premium over their Remington and Eddystone mates, I had two Winchesters, and both were terrific guns, one was a p14 converted to use 300 H&H, and the other was a P17 Winchester by Griffin and Howe sporter, best grade, that like an idiot I parted with a few years ago.

I have seen exactly two No4 conversions to sporting rifles, and both were crudely done "bubba" hacks, Its a weak action, that stretches with extended use, and thus the uniquely British idea of simple handing out longer bolt heads to screw on, taking up the stretch until the action simply lets go. While SMLE's were often available here in the post war years, really the no4 mk 1 has only recently been dropped by the commonwealth nations and been let out to surplus. They were still a front line rifle in india until about 1980

[1911fan]

then I was wrong sorry'

[Paul]

I see. I ask because, one, I was curious. And, two, my Dad has roughly 2 dozen or so Enfields, and maybe half dozen of those are sporterized. One or two of those were kind of hack jobs, the other four or five by competent gunsmiths. Anyway, based on that, I just assumed they were fairly common place in the sporterized form.

[1911fan]

I used to work at shop that carried the odd and unique, and I have spent hours and hours in gun shops just looking and talking. When I was there, we never had a sporterized SMLE style rifle pass the doors. We maybe had 100 different P series enfields come in, Even today, if you buy an Asquare dangerous game rifle, its built on an Enfield action. Almost always when you hear of an Enfield sporter, the description is applied to a Enfield pattern gun, because as a kid, SMLE were always referred to as "SMelly's" or Lee-Enfields, never Enfields. Enfields were either British P53 .58 caliber muzzle loaders, (sold in great quantity to the South in the War of Northern Aggression) or else P14/17's.

[Paul]

I used to work at shop that carried the odd and unique, and I have spent hours and hours in gun shops just looking and talking. When I was there, we never had a sporterized SMLE style rifle pass the doors. We maybe had 100 different P series enfields come in, Even today, if you buy an Asquare dangerous game rifle, its built on an Enfield action. Almost always when you hear of an Enfield sporter, the description is applied to a Enfield pattern gun, because as a kid, SMLE were always referred to as "SMelly's" or Lee-Enfields, never Enfields. Enfields were either British P53 .58 caliber muzzle loaders, (sold in great quantity to the South in the War of Northern Aggression) or else P14/17's.

I believe you, I'm just saying my Dad's "Enfields" are like the one you pictured, which is why I asked. He also has several of the copies/variants, and models converted to .22's for training rifles and so on.

[Paul]

SMLE were always referred to as "SMelly's" or Lee-Enfields, never Enfields.

BTW, just for clarification... Enfield's are my term, because I wasn't around when you and my Dad were kids.

[1911fan]

I used to work at shop that carried the odd and unique, and I have spent hours and hours in gun shops just looking and talking. When I was there, we never had a sporterized SMLE style rifle pass the doors. We maybe had 100 different P series enfields come in, Even today, if you buy an Asquare dangerous game rifle, its built on an Enfield action. Almost always when you hear of an Enfield sporter, the description is applied to a Enfield pattern gun, because as a kid, SMLE were always referred to as "SMelly's" or Lee-Enfields, never Enfields. Enfields were either British P53 .58 caliber muzzle loaders, (sold in great quantity to the South in the War of Northern Aggression) or else P14/17's.

I believe you, I'm just saying my Dad's "Enfields" are like the one you pictured, which is why I asked. He also has several of the copies/variants, and models converted to .22's for training rifles and so on.

NOT trying to be picky here, but I would never call that an Enfield, that would be a smelly, or Lee-Enfield. Just what I was raised calling stuff. Thats why I said what I said

[Paul]

NOT trying to be picky here, but I would never call that an Enfield, that would be a smelly, or Lee-Enfield. Just what I was raised calling stuff. Thats why I said what I said

See my post above.

[1911fan]

SMLE were always referred to as "SMelly's" or Lee-Enfields, never Enfields.

BTW, just for clarification... Enfield's are my term, because I wasn't around when you and my Dad were kids.

Why you little Whippersnapper, just you wait till I find my cane, I will give you a thrashin'

[jmw55018]

i have a sporterized no.4 mk1. i like it. it has been modified a fair amount and even with the semi-homemade just slightly off center scope mount it doesnt really look bad.

[selurcspi]

Every time I see a SMLE that has been sporterized, I get this urge to restore it to it's correct livery and slap the individual that would deface a work of Art. Especially when someone butchers the original stock.

My $.02