Choosing an inexpensive rifle

[Ironbear]

The Savage 10FCM is $530 at Buds. What advantage is there to a model like that vs the more traditional ones I was looking at?

In the eternal scheme of things... probably not much. The "C" in the name means removable magazine. I prefer that. The forward mounted scope is typically a lower power and is oriented toward quick pointing and target acquisition, and for shorter ranges. This goes against the conventional wisdom that you need high-power scopes and long range capability to shoot deer at an average of 50-75 yards. </sarcasm> The FCM also comes with iron sights which is becoming increasingly rare.

Also, what difference does a 24" barrel make compared to a 20"?

Extra length gets you extra muzzle velocity, overall length, and weight.

[DeanC]

I should also add, that I was only talking about rem 700's not the morphidite 710/770 monstrosities.

Agreed 100%

The Rem 700 is a fine gun. But they get a king's ransom for a new one. A used one is a fine proposition. It's like buying a car with a 350 chevy engine. Parts and service are almost universal.

[Pinnacle]

The Savage 10FCM is $530 at Buds. What advantage is there to a model like that vs the more traditional ones I was looking at? Also, what difference does a 24" barrel make compared to a 20"?

When you have a BBL over 22" you have reached the point of diminishing returns - a 24" tube is great for taking to the range and getting better velocity - and a 22" is about ideal and a 20" is best to carry and use as an all around rifle.

I like a shorter bbl - length does not always equate to better accuracy - sometimes a shorter tube is stiffer and easier to CARRY / a hunting rifle is something that you carry more than you will shoot.

A 24" bbl is nice but it is really long to swing through the woods a 22' is OK and a 20" is about right for hunting in MN IMHO. I have a Tactical Rifle that I BUILT in 308 - I had the choice of ANY bbl length that I wanted - I chose 20" - the gun shoots 1/2 MOA (I think that is just about as good as it gets for something that I built.)

The good thing about Savage rifles is that you can swap BBL's out simply by using the bbl nut and a headspace gauge. Say you buy a .270 and you want something else in the same case head dimm family - just swap out the bbl with no other changes. (buy a 30-06 and you can make it into a 270 - 35 Whelen - 308 - 243 - 260 you get the gist of it.)

The Scout Rifle is a great tool - short accurate compact and fast to bring into action - and if they made it in 223 I would have one. The Styer Scout rifle is about ooooh 3X the price and I dont see any advantage in the Styer other than the name.

[DeanC]

The Savage 10FCM is $530 at Buds.

That stings a bit. Then add in that you really can only use either a Leupold or Burris scope on it and it stings even more. But, compare that to $2k+ for a genuine Steyr Scout and it seems like a bargain.

(anybody ever tried a handgun scope on a scout mount?)

[rucker]

I should also add, that I was only talking about rem 700's not the morphidite 710/770 monstrosities.

Agreed 100%

The Rem 700 is a fine gun. But they get a king's ransom for a new one. A used one is a fine proposition. It's like buying a car with a 350 chevy engine. Parts and service are almost universal.

A new Remington Model 700 SPS (Special Purpose Synthetic?) is $490.

I guess I should actually figure out exactly what I am looking for and then see what models are available

When you have a BBL over 22" you have reached the point of diminishing returns - a 24" tube is great for taking to the range and getting better velocity - and a 22" is about ideal and a 20" is best to carry and use as an all around rifle.

I like a shorter bbl - length does not always equate to better accuracy - sometimes a shorter tube is stiffer and easier to CARRY / a hunting rifle is something that you carry more than you will shoot.

hmmm, I will probably just shoot at the range for the most part. I have never been deer hunting before so I kind of want to try it but I don't expect it's something I would do much.

[mnglocker]

How about starting with a little more gun (that has sights) and adding glass later? Maybe picked up a used Rem700, CZ 550 series, Winchester 70, or a Ruger M77?

And don't panic about ammo cost, you have a dillion. Don't forget to check out guns rifled in .270

[Pinnacle]

Rucker

I would do this - Choose CAREFULLY the caliber of the rifle first considering what you are asking the thing to do for you then I would go about looking for the chassis and features.

If you are oging to hunt deer - 308 is FINE (BUT I might consider something in 30-06 that YOU can throttle UP or DOWN to suit your needs - remember Son - YOU ARE A HANDLOADER NOW CALIBER MAKES NO DIFFERENCE)

The reason that I might go with something larger than the 306 is this - the 30-06 offers a little more versatility and you can certinly load anything that makes your little heart flutter - I have some AWESOME 220 grain loads for it that will rock your world - or some meek and mild 150's

Ask Rothman about the 165's that I let him shoot last deer season... About lifted him off of the ground and made him take 2 steps backwards.... A 30-06 is very cersatile and hell it can be a 30-30 - 308 or anything you want it to be using the proper bullet and powder combination. If a man is going have one rifle - just one rifle - I HIGHLY recommend a 30-06

I have some 30-06 loads 166gr APM2 Going 2920 out of my little 17.5" gun - now you tell me is that powerful enough? Or I have some 150 grainers that I throw at 2200 that are really nice to shoot.

You Handload - dont limit yourself.

[rucker]

You Handload - dont limit yourself.

Good point. The only time I have shot a .30-06 is out of an old Model 70 (I think) and it wasn't pleasant so that's the only thing that made me think I didn't want that. I'm pretty sure I mainly want a range gun to fiddle with. If I can make loads that are just as accurate and similar kick to a .308 then that definitely sounds like an appealing option to me.

[Pinnacle]

You Handload - dont limit yourself.

Good point. The only time I have shot a .30-06 is out of an old Model 70 (I think) and it wasn't pleasant so that's the only thing that made me think I didn't want that. I'm pretty sure I mainly want a range gun to fiddle with. If I can make loads that are just as accurate and similar kick to a .308 then that definitely sounds like an appealing option to me.

If all that you want is centerfire for a range gun to shoot groups - I would look elsewhere than a 30cal. I would look at a 22cal centerfire - you will be a lot happier with that just for range work and perhaps varminting or prairie dogging - unless of course you want to hunt deer - that is another matter alltogether.

If Big game is not int he plans - why beat up your shoulder and your wallet with a 30 Cal? You want to punch paper - a 223 will fit the bill nicely.

How about a 243 for punching paper - pleasant to shoot recoil wise and since you handload ammo is not a problem. And it is about perfect for just about anything from varmints to deer

I am thinking that you want a heavier than normal bbl for range work - hellish to carry in the woods - but nice on the bench.

[rucker]

You Handload - dont limit yourself.

Good point. The only time I have shot a .30-06 is out of an old Model 70 (I think) and it wasn't pleasant so that's the only thing that made me think I didn't want that. I'm pretty sure I mainly want a range gun to fiddle with. If I can make loads that are just as accurate and similar kick to a .308 then that definitely sounds like an appealing option to me.

If all that you want is centerfire for a range gun to shoot groups - I would look elsewhere than a 30cal. I would look at a 22cal centerfire - you will be a lot happier with that just for range work and perhaps varminting or prairie dogging - unless of course you want to hunt deer - that is another matter alltogether.

If Big game is not int he plans - why beat up your shoulder and your wallet with a 30 Cal? You want to punch paper - a 223 will fit the bill nicely.

How about a 243 for punching paper - pleasant to shoot recoil wise and since you handload ammo is not a problem. And it is about perfect for just about anything from varmints to deer

I am thinking that you want a heavier than normal bbl for range work - hellish to carry in the woods - but nice on the bench.

I have a .22 (my original post should have said "another rifle") and have shot a bazillion rounds through it but now I want something that I can reload for my own amusement. I think the reloading aspect is more important to me than anything else. Working out my own loads and seeing what differences it makes sounds fun and I can't really do that with my handgun or shotgun loads; I'm not a good enough shot with a handgun and I guess I'm not good enough or notice enough of a difference with shotgun loads. I realize that looking at the cheapest guns available isn't a good match for this kind of thing but I want something cheap so I can figure out what I like/dislike and what I really want.

Thanks for making me realize what I am actually looking for

[meltedeyes]

I know you've already vetoed it, but I'd get a Mosin-Nagant. (hell, I got two of em). I did some careful shopping and got a 19/30 for $85 and a M44 for $105 earlier this year at a gun show.

Bolt action, dirt cheap, ammo is findable at around 15 cents a round, and the round is comparable to the 30-06.

Think about it, you get one for $100, try it out, don't like sell it for $100. It's already a used firearm, it's not going to depreciate, and the way things are sounding, it can only go up in value. And if you really hate it and just want it gone, you can give it to me, I'll get rid of it for you.

[Pinnacle]

Then the choice is pretty clear isnt it?

A Savage is about as accurate as one can get in a rifle for the $$$$

A 223 is great from a scientific perspective - small variations in anythig can yield much more dramatic deviations. Small Cap cases and handloading can be tricky until ou get he hang of it and get the formula down right.

Man I envy your excitement and willingness to experiment with ONE rifle and caliber. Just think of all of the new things that youa re going to learn -

Neck Turning /Reaming
Crimp/No-Crimp
Trimming
Primer pocket deburring
Micrometer seating and OAL Adjustment for best results

Imagine picking ONE caliber and playing with it EXCLUSIVELY until you get the results that you want. How entertaining!!!!!!!!!!!!

Nifty project Rucker - let me know if you need a hand with anything when it is time to really start to experiment. Keep us posted!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[JoeH]

I was in the same boat a few years ago. I elected to spend a little more than your budget and bought a Tikka T3 Lite. That rifle was new and all the rage when I bought it. It's uber accurate and has a wonderful trigger. I went with middle of the road glass (Leopold VX-II) and have been happy with the combo.

Now, what struck a chord with me is the discussion of reloading and versatility. I went with the .270 WSM caliber. I did so in order to have one rifle that I can load to shoot varmints, deer, or even elk.

I have yet to load for it. The range goes from a 90 gr projectile at almost 3800 ft/s to a 180 gr projectile at over 2800 ft/s. I wonder how the 90's would do on varmints?

[Pinnacle]

I was in the same boat a few years ago. I elected to spend a little more than your budget and bought a Tikka T3 Lite. That rifle was new and all the rage when I bought it. It's uber accurate and has a wonderful trigger. I went with middle of the road glass (Leopold VX-II) and have been happy with the combo.

Now, what struck a chord with me is the discussion of reloading and versatility. I went with the .270 WSM caliber. I did so in order to have one rifle that I can load to shoot varmints, deer, or even elk.

I have yet to load for it. The range goes from a 90 gr projectile at almost 3800 ft/s to a 180 gr projectile at over 2800 ft/s. I wonder how the 90's would do on varmints?

There is a terminal ballistics term known as DISSASSOCIATION and I think that is what would happen with a projo hitting anything at that velocity.

I shot a Coyote at quite the distance with my 6.5 with 120 gr NBT's cooking along at about 3000 at the muzzle -

lets just say that was the last step that critter ever took. I about blew him in half. Hit in the middle of the spine - nearly blew him in 2 parts.

[JoeH]

I know NOTHING about this rifle BUT the S&W i-bolt (does it play mp3s?) will be on sale at Bill's Show. Maybe this would fit your needs; I don't know.