Choosing an inexpensive rifle

[1911fan]

When you said you have a .22 did you mean a .22 rimfire? or .22 centerfire?

That sub 500 dollar remington comes in the .260 rem and the 7- 08 rem. Both have very low recoil and the capacity to kill elk if you ever go that high. Both have scads of bullets available, and can use almost every rifle powder made in one way or another. ALL remington triggers are adjustable, and the way to do it is easily found on the internet. I have several of its predecessors , the 700 adl synthetic, and love them, all shoot just fine as well.

One thing about long action to short action is the cost of powder. A long action using an 06 case, (25-06, 270, 280, 30-06, 35 whelen) is going to use about 54 to 56 grains of powder per shot. That equals about 130 loads. A short action generally uses about 44 grains, which equals about 160 rounds...so you get 30 loads per pound of powder for 'free'.

WHile an 06 is a wonderful cartridge, and it does have lots of versatility, its downsides are recoil, more expensive ammo, a longer rifle, and the need for a longer barrel most of the time. Shooting a .260 would save you on powder, weight, recoil, economy, and I think its more fun to shoot when you do not get so beat up.

[rucker]

I know NOTHING about this rifle BUT the S&W i-bolt (does it play mp3s?) will be on sale at Bill's Show. Maybe this would fit your needs; I don't know.

That looks nice and right in my price range but I will never be able to decide (or afford it) by next week. Pinnacle has put me down the path of 3 months of painstaking caliber research

[Pinnacle]

When you said you have a .22 did you mean a .22 rimfire? or .22 centerfire?

That sub 500 dollar remington comes in the .260 rem and the 7- 08 rem. Both have very low recoil and the capacity to kill elk if you ever go that high. Both have scads of bullets available, and can use almost every rifle powder made in one way or another. ALL remington triggers are adjustable, and the way to do it is easily found on the internet. I have several of its predecessors , the 700 adl synthetic, and love them, all shoot just fine as well.

One thing about long action to short action is the cost of powder. A long action using an 06 case, (25-06, 270, 280, 30-06, 35 whelen) is going to use about 54 to 56 grains of powder per shot. That equals about 130 loads. A short action generally uses about 44 grains, which equals about 160 rounds...so you get 30 loads per pound of powder for 'free'.

WHile an 06 is a wonderful cartridge, and it does have lots of versatility, its downsides are recoil, more expensive ammo, a longer rifle, and the need for a longer barrel most of the time. Shooting a .260 would save you on powder, weight, recoil, economy, and I think its more fun to shoot when you do not get so beat up.

ABSOLUTELY

The 06 for a handloader is a dream but it can come at a cost - Frankly 06 is about the limit of recoil that one can reasonably deal with. Anything more is just plain punishment.

the 260 is an interesting choice for a guy that wants to explore something for a while. Great caliber - easy to shoot and good all around.

[rucker]

When you said you have a .22 did you mean a .22 rimfire? or .22 centerfire?

Rimfire and I'm kind of bored with it.

That sub 500 dollar remington comes in the .260 rem and the 7- 08 rem. Both have very low recoil and the capacity to kill elk if you ever go that high. Both have scads of bullets available, and can use almost every rifle powder made in one way or another. ALL remington triggers are adjustable, and the way to do it is easily found on the internet. I have several of its predecessors , the 700 adl synthetic, and love them, all shoot just fine as well.

I didn't realize, before making this thread, that the 700 is still in my price range. I will definitely consider them.

One thing about long action to short action is the cost of powder. A long action using an 06 case, (25-06, 270, 280, 30-06, 35 whelen) is going to use about 54 to 56 grains of powder per shot. That equals about 130 loads. A short action generally uses about 44 grains, which equals about 160 rounds...so you get 30 loads per pound of powder for 'free'.

WHile an 06 is a wonderful cartridge, and it does have lots of versatility, its downsides are recoil, more expensive ammo, a longer rifle, and the need for a longer barrel most of the time. Shooting a .260 would save you on powder, weight, recoil, economy, and I think its more fun to shoot when you do not get so beat up.

I'm going to do some research into the cost of components as I haven't looked at the differences yet. Thanks for all your advice.

[Belgiboy]

I was at Cabelas last weekend and they had a new Remington 798 in .308 for $499 in one of the racks that are in front of the gun librarie. I took a long hard look at that one, great looking elegant rifle with a laminate stock. That gun got great reviews, and is based on the proven 98 Mauser design. It should make an awesome deer rifle. I would definately check out the gunstop too, generally they have a good selection of second hand deer rifles, some even with good glass on them already.
I have shot the Savage 110 package gun (7 mm Rem Mag) and they will shoot around MOA with Winchester Ballistic Silvertips but the optic qualities of the scope (or lack thereof) make it barely serviceable since most shooting opportunities in deer hunting are dusk or dawn. I still think they are worth the money, the accutrigger makes it easy to shoot well. The .308 is a great cartridge, fun to reload, tons of components available, accurate and easy on the shoulder. In my opinion you don't really need a lot of versatility in your caliber for deer hunting, you just need one good load that will do the job for you.

Just my $0.02

[Pinnacle]

I know NOTHING about this rifle BUT the S&W i-bolt (does it play mp3s?) will be on sale at Bill's Show. Maybe this would fit your needs; I don't know.

That looks nice and right in my price range but I will never be able to decide (or afford it) by next week. Pinnacle has put me down the path of 3 months of painstaking caliber research

GOOD - I am glad that you have your thinking cap on - remember that there are very few bad choices in rifle caliber when you "roll yer own"

It all depends on what you want the rifle to do.

[Einthoven's Triangle]

Savage is a great choice! Buy good glass, and solid mounts. Going with a carbine length gun in MN is not going to be a handicap......not like going to be taking 400yd shots on Bambi. And, as I recall the M14/M1A only has 20 in bbl and it quite effective at launching 308 bullet a fair distance down range.

I would not call any centerfire round cheap to shoot!

[Pinnacle]

You are absolutely right about the price of shooting any centerfire.

If you are going to work on an accuracy load and experiment - it is not cheap - but it is interesting to see what small changes do to the overall effect. 100 cases and bullets and powder and primers - a good start to learning about centerfire rifle shooting and reloading.

It can get spendy - but it is not too bad as long as you keep it reasonable. Dont let the cost scare you off - it is not that bad when you work with small quantities.

Now loading 6500 Rounds at a crack - thats spendy....

[Fast351]

I have a Rem 700 bolt in 308 and it's a great all around gun. Shoots .6" groups all day long, and sub 1/2" if I happen to do my part that day. Would work fine for most game (although I use a 30-06 for that). It wasn't all that cheap though.

I think the Savage 10 series rifles are a heck of a bargain. A 10FP in either .223 or .308 with a 20" barrel is a hell of a versatile rifle. The stocks aren't the greatest, but the trigger and actions are absolutely top notch. And they can be had for around $500.

That would be my vote, although many other good suggestions are floating throughout this site.

[David]

I absolutely love the Remington 700, which I believe is in the $500 range for a brand new SPS, and .308 happens to be my favorite caliber for that (or any bolt) rifle. Used, it's in the range of the rifles you posted.

http://www.remington.com/products/firea ... armint.asp

[GregM]

I know you've already vetoed it, but I'd get a Mosin-Nagant. (hell, I got two of em). I did some careful shopping and got a 19/30 for $85 and a M44 for $105 earlier this year at a gun show.

Bolt action, dirt cheap, ammo is findable at around 15 cents a round, and the round is comparable to the 30-06.

Think about it, you get one for $100, try it out, don't like sell it for $100. It's already a used firearm, it's not going to depreciate, and the way things are sounding, it can only go up in value. And if you really hate it and just want it gone, you can give it to me, I'll get rid of it for you.

Good suggestion. I would also recommend the Mauser 98K. Cabela's had a gorgeous Mitchell's Mauser last week for $450.

[DeanC]

If you are concerned about recoil, you can get one of these. They work great.

http://www.molonlabe.net/Commentaries/jeff9_3.html
If you convince yourself that recoil is nothing to worry about, it will not be. I have a lot of experience along this line, having taught people rifle marksmanship for most of my adult life. It is not a matter of how big or strong you are, it is a matter of what you think you should think about rifle kick. I have had great success with adolescents of both sexes in this regard, and while I certainly do not assert that recoil effect does not exist, I do insist that it is highly overrated. Any boy who plays touch football seriously will be beaten around far more in a quarter than he ever will be by the butt of his rifle. What is more, he will enjoy it.

http://www.molonlabe.net/Commentaries/jeff5_9.html
In theory, one should acquire wisdom with age, but sometimes it seems to me that the older I get the more things there are that I do not understand. Among these things is recoil effect. When you shoot, your launcher bounces back in rough proportion to the momentum of the projectile and the weight of the weapon. We all know this and we accept it, but it seems to me that many people apply unnecessary concentration to what we used to call "fighting the problem." It is true, of course, that a very powerful cartridge fired in a relatively light weapon will kick. This kick can be measured, and obviously it varies from one weapon to another, but within reasonable limits its effect is far more mental than physical. Fred Wells of Prescott has been building very powerful weapons for many years, and I have fired a couple of them. Fred says that the effect of the recoil of the weapon on the shooter is 85 percent mental, and I am inclined to agree with him.

Recently a friend of mine, who is female and not at all used to rifle shooting, decided that she wanted to get a piece for her own use and was torn between the 308 and the 7-08. Somebody had told her that the 7-08 will kick less, presumably because its 7mm bore is smaller than that of the 30 caliber. If there is indeed any difference in recoil between the 7-08 and the 308, it certainly will be too minor for my friend to detect, yet she regards this choice of calibers as a major problem.

I have heard both sides of the discussion about whether a big man is better able to absorb recoil punishment than a small - or vice versa. Pointless argument.

The fact is that the blow delivered by the butt of the rifle or shotgun to a shooter is simply not heavy enough to bother with. Anyone who plays contact sports is subjected to heavier blows than will be delivered by the butt of his rifle, and more continuously.

The best thing to do about recoil is to ignore it.

[rucker]

I think I want this one: http://savagearms.com/12fv.htm

It's a Savage 12FV. Gunstop quoted me $489. It's really heavy and a longer barrel but deer hunting was an afterthought, not something I even know that I want to do. This should be about the best range gun I can get in that price range I think.

Model 12FV – with AccuTrigger™
Action: Short
Caliber: 223 Rem, 22-250 Rem, 243 Win, 308 Win, 204 Ruger
Overall Length: 46"
Barrel Length: 26"
Weight: 8.75 lbs
Magazine Capacity: 4 rounds
Stock Black synthetic with positive checkering, dual pillar bedding
Sights Drilled and tapped for scope mounts
Rifling Rate of Twist: 223 Rem (1 in 9"), 243 Win (1 in 9.25"), 308 Win(1 in 10"), 22-250 Rem, 204 Ruger (1 in 12")
Features AccuTrigger™, oversized bolt handle, blued barreled action, heavy free-floating and button-rifled barrel, with internal box magazine and swivel studs.
Suggested Retail: $620.00

[1911fan]

WHat caliber are you looking for? WIth the 26 inch barrel, shooting that in .22-250 would be a very very good rifle to 500 yards. It would be overly heavy and awkward in a tree stand, but you would need a deer caliber to make that an issue.

Its a wonderfully accurate gun if you get it.

[rucker]

WHat caliber are you looking for? WIth the 26 inch barrel, shooting that in .22-250 would be a very very good rifle to 500 yards. It would be overly heavy and awkward in a tree stand, but you would need a deer caliber to make that an issue.

Its a wonderfully accurate gun if you get it.

I'm not sure about caliber yet. I at least narrowed it down to the ones that they chamber that model for!