Choosing an inexpensive rifle

[Pinnacle]

243 is a wonderful caliber and you can use it for varmints or deer - and paper.

I would stick to the 20-22" Bbl length - 26 is just waaaay to long and heavy

A shorter bbl might give you surprising results - shorter = stiffer and less prone to changes. As for glass - I would spend as much on the glass as the rifle - or you will just not be happy at all.

Good rule of thumb - buy the best glass that you can afford.

[1911fan]

while spending 500 dollars on glass gets you a lot, for s tarters, the glass that leupold and Burris sell for about $200-$250 are awful good, durable, life time warranteed, and will let you get started.

Depends on your choice of caliber on which scope to buy,

varmint class, I would look at the 4x12 power scopes More power when you are starting out seems to slow down spotting and getting on target, as well as exaggerating any mirage on hot days.

tree stand gun, 3-9 is ok, I like 2-7 power better.

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.e ... t=11082005 Leupold 4x12 rifleman, a heck of a scope for the money.

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.e ... t=11082005 Leupold 2x7 power, a Great deer hunting scope for the money, low enough power to let you find deer quickly when they are moving, yet enough power to look for horns or for finding holes in paper out to 100 yards.

[someone1980]

See if you can find yourself one of these:

The thing about Savage is that you get a good rifle for a fair price.

I had Bill's order one of the Savage Scouts for me. I love it. Nice and light. Putting a box down range will make your shoulder sore.

I also have the 12FV 26" .308. This is a bit too long to fit in the car.

They both shoot great.

[someone1980]

The Savage 10FCM is $530 at Buds.

That stings a bit. Then add in that you really can only use either a Leupold or Burris scope on it and it stings even more. But, compare that to $2k+ for a genuine Steyr Scout and it seems like a bargain.

(anybody ever tried a handgun scope on a scout mount?)

The eye relief is wrong with a pistol scope. The scout needs a scope between the close (normal) rifle and far pistol. Make sure you get the right glass.

Rifle $530
Scope $220 (Leupold 2.5x)
Rings $12
Bipod $70 (light + swivel)
3 extra mags $96
It came with a nylon Ching sling. It is not the best, but will work.

Take a look at what another other rifle that is going to shoot and hold up as well.

The short overall length of the rifle makes it easier to carry through the woods, and to get it to your shoulder quickly.

The only other rifle I would look at for starting out are the Remington 700 as they are so standard.

[someone1980]

As for scopes here is what little I know about glass. You want the clearest glass that you can get, don't worry about the magnification. There are people that shoot iron sights out to 1,000 yards. You only need 4-9x to make it out that far.

How do you tell clear glass? Price for one. Zoom for another. Something that is common across all lenses that are zoom is something called Chromatic Aberration (linked below). What happens is that the different wave lengths of light bend different amounts when they enter the glass. This leads to a fuzzy image. Zoom lenses (variable power scopes) suffer from it more then fixed power scopes and it will be worst at the high and low ends of the range (especially the high). What it looks like is a red tinge on the upper left, easier to see is the aqua/blue tinge on the lower right (see image below) along something that has a hard edge. If you are at a store looking at scopes, take the scope, turn it to its largest power, aim it at the white ceiling some ways away were there is a color change (light vs shadow) or at merchandise some ways away (scopes close focus distance tend to be at least several feet away). There may be a knob for focus, use it to get the image as close to in focus as you can. If it looks a bit fuzzy, try a different one of those scopes. If it is still fuzzy, DON'T BUY THAT MAKE AND MODEL. Some of the example scopes that are sitting out have been dropped or banged, and are not any good anymore.

You try to find something with a sharp transition (white to black) because our brains actually suck pretty badly at telling small amounts of Chromatic Aberration. So you find the worst case scenario and do the test. If it passes that but still looks a bit fuzzy, it could still be Chromatic Aberration, or poor construction tolerances, or the glass could be ground incorrectly, or the glass or glass coatings could be crap.

So in short buy good glass or you will be pissed off, and it will give you a headache to look trough. This is the same for camera lenses.

http://bmayer.blogspot.com/2005/01/aber ... -snow.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromatic_aberration

[DeanC]

Here's a new rifle on the market. Pretty nifty.

Howa/Hogue Compact Ranchland Security Rifles

[ttousi]

Neat but a bit pricy @ 600 with scope

[Spartan117]

To hell with bolt action, get an AR10 or an STG58!

...Just kidding, I'm aware that was not a helpful post.

[rucker]

To hell with bolt action, get an AR10 or an STG58!

...Just kidding, I'm aware that was not a helpful post.

I really really really want an AR10 but there is no way I can afford one.

[rucker]

As for scopes here is what little I know about glass. You want the clearest glass that you can get, don't worry about the magnification. There are people that shoot iron sights out to 1,000 yards. You only need 4-9x to make it out that far.

How do you tell clear glass? Price for one. Zoom for another. Something that is common across all lenses that are zoom is something called Chromatic Aberration (linked below). What happens is that the different wave lengths of light bend different amounts when they enter the glass. This leads to a fuzzy image. Zoom lenses (variable power scopes) suffer from it more then fixed power scopes and it will be worst at the high and low ends of the range (especially the high). What it looks like is a red tinge on the upper left, easier to see is the aqua/blue tinge on the lower right (see image below) along something that has a hard edge. If you are at a store looking at scopes, take the scope, turn it to its largest power, aim it at the white ceiling some ways away were there is a color change (light vs shadow) or at merchandise some ways away (scopes close focus distance tend to be at least several feet away). There may be a knob for focus, use it to get the image as close to in focus as you can. If it looks a bit fuzzy, try a different one of those scopes. If it is still fuzzy, DON'T BUY THAT MAKE AND MODEL. Some of the example scopes that are sitting out have been dropped or banged, and are not any good anymore.

You try to find something with a sharp transition (white to black) because our brains actually suck pretty badly at telling small amounts of Chromatic Aberration. So you find the worst case scenario and do the test. If it passes that but still looks a bit fuzzy, it could still be Chromatic Aberration, or poor construction tolerances, or the glass could be ground incorrectly, or the glass or glass coatings could be crap.

So in short buy good glass or you will be pissed off, and it will give you a headache to look trough. This is the same for camera lenses.

http://bmayer.blogspot.com/2005/01/aber ... -snow.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromatic_aberration

Thanks. I was looking at either the Leupold Rifleman or Nikon Buckmark scopes a little bit online. They seem to be the highest line for each brand to still fall in my price range*; anybody with opinions on those? I will definitely go and look through them personally before I buy anything though.

* theoretically... if I eat a lot of ramen

[Leech]

Don't overlook the Swiss Schmidt-Rubin K-31. It has a cool straight pull action and a great reputation for accuracy.

[Pinnacle]

Don't overlook the Swiss Schmidt-Rubin K-31. It has a cool straight pull action and a great reputation for accuracy.

YES There is an interesting option BUT the ammo is alittle tough to come by and so are the components.


Look into a BURRIS Scope - Excellent product at a reasonable price point.

[farmerj]

I will suggest finding an OLD Rem 788 in .243. Nasty Accurate.

Once I bedded my action, this thing started to shoot under .5 inch at 100 yds.

I still need to start working up hand loads for it. but I expect to see good things come of it.

Other than a savage or a CZ, not many new guns I would consider.

I have an M14 I am reloading for. That keeps me busy enough as it is working up 168 and 175/178 gr loads. Getting to a range long enough to let it stretch out and do the job is the hard part. Anything under 600 yards is childs play. 800 and 1000 yards it loves.

I took my time to put my M14 together. After 4 years, I still have only $800 tied up into it. A SA Inc equal to it is a National Match. There is NO WAY I could have dropped that amount of money on a rifle to buy it new.

[1911fan]

I have both the rifleman and the VX1 lines of leupolds as well as some higher end stuff. we get some decent weather, your more than welcome to try what I have.

[EAJuggalo]

Tousi, what would you consider a good price for a bolt action .308 with glass? I'm looking for something with a bit more range than my AK but nothing like some of the stuff HammAR has.