Need help/opinions/advice

[Troops2990]

I went out shooting today with my Savage 110FP Bolt-Action, it is chambered in .223 Winchester with a bull-barrel, bi-pod, and a BSA 24x scope. The rounds I was using are hand loaded, 1 type of bullet was a 50 Gr. Winchester Ballistic Silver Tip, and the other kind I was using was 55 Gr. Nosler Ballistic Tip Spitzers. Now that you have the details, comes the problem...

Shooting using the bi-pod, in the prone position, I was having 1" groups at 100 yards with both kinds of bullets. I ran out of the Silver Tips and then decided to move out to 200 yards and use up the rest of the Noslers... At 200 yards, with everything the exact same as for 100 yards, my rounds were hitting all over the place... I only had 5 rounds (Noslers) left but all of them were about 1 foot low and spread out about 5-6" on each side of center. I then tried some plinking rounds that I had also reloaded and they performed similarly.

At 100 yards the Silver Tips and Noslers were within 1" of point of aim, and the plinking round were within 2". I can't figure out why they are so far off at 200 yards when they are doing pretty good at 100 yards. The .223 should not drop 1 foot in 100 yards and I can't believe it is all human error since I am able to hold a tight group at 100 yrds without flinching and the fact that every round was all over the place, not just 1 or 2. I don't know if this sounds like something wrong with the barrel or if my scope is crap or what..

Any ideas, suggestions, or help would be awesome.

Thanks

[usnret]

And the wind was blowing what 20mph with gusts to 30mph today. Just saying that might have had something to do with your results.

[Troops2990]

And the wind was blowing what 20mph with gusts to 30mph today. Just saying that might have had something to do with your results.

That wouldn't cause it to drop a foot though would it?

[yuppiejr]

And the wind was blowing what 20mph with gusts to 30mph today. Just saying that might have had something to do with your results.

That wouldn't cause it to drop a foot though would it?

That seems like a lot, 1-2" of drop should be normal for reloads using those bullets within the start-max load range in .223. Are you using a fixed power scope or is it a variable? Are you running the same magnification at both ranges?

Other things always worth knowing... are the action screws nice and tight? Is the barrel free floated or is it one of the poly stocks with the two contact pads toward the muzzle? Have you tried shooting off of bags or a pack instead of the bipod?

I try to avoid scope snobbery and don't tend to spend more than $200-300 on glass (or go over 10x) when I use it but I'd say you would be well served looking at something a bit better than a $50 BSA scope for what sounds like a $600-$700+ rifle. What sort of rings/base? This Bushnell Elite 3200 10x fixed power mildot scope is generally well regarded and not a bad deal at $170 lightly used: viewtopic.php?f=22&t=30986&p=351991&hilit=bushnell#p351991

[Troops2990]

Thanks for your reply, the scope I know is crap but it came with the gun so I can't complain I guess. The barrel is a free float with the bi pod attached to the stock, as far as I know all the screws and everything are tight. It is just weird to me that it is so consistant at 100 yrds and then goes to crap at 200 yrds. As far as magnification goes, I bumped it up from about 20x to about 22x when I went from 100 to 200.

Sent from my ADR6425LVW using Tapatalk 2

[yuppiejr]

.... As far as magnification goes, I bumped it up from about 20x to about 22x when I went from 100 to 200.

... this might be the culprit, test it without touching the magnification setting on the scope at each range and I'd bet you'll find at least the drastic change in drop will be addressed. The 5-6" windage spread is strange but could be conditions if you were surfing 30 MPH gusts downrange.

[Troops2990]

.... As far as magnification goes, I bumped it up from about 20x to about 22x when I went from 100 to 200.

... this might be the culprit, test it without touching the magnification setting on the scope at each range and I'd bet you'll find at least the drastic change in drop will be addressed. The 5-6" windage spread is strange but could be conditions if you were surfing 30 MPH gusts downrange.

Thanks, I can give this a try but if this is the issue then I think I definitely need a new scope, if it can't compensate for the magnification.

[Holland&Holland]

100 yards and 200 yard in my experiance is a big differnece. It might not seem like it but I find that I can get away with things at 100 yards (poor technique type things) and still get respectable groups but if I do not concentrate and focus on my fundamentals at 200 I see the same result you are experiancing. If I do focus I can tighten that group up considerably.

[Troops2990]

100 yards and 200 yard in my experiance is a big differnece. It might not seem like it but I find that I can get away with things at 100 yards (poor technique type things) and still get respectable groups but if I do not concentrate and focus on my fundamentals at 200 I see the same result you are experiancing. If I do focus I can tighten that group up considerably.

True but I can do decent groups with my 308 at this range so that makes me think it is the rifle or scope..maybe not

[Holland&Holland]

100 yards and 200 yard in my experiance is a big differnece. It might not seem like it but I find that I can get away with things at 100 yards (poor technique type things) and still get respectable groups but if I do not concentrate and focus on my fundamentals at 200 I see the same result you are experiancing. If I do focus I can tighten that group up considerably.

True but I can do decent groups with my 308 at this range so that makes me think it is the rifle or scope..maybe not

If it were me I would shoot my .308 then at 100 and shoot this one at 100 get feeling really good with both take the same ammo over to the 200 and not change anything. Shoot the .308 first and make sure I am happy with the group and then shoot the other and see how that goes. Then if not happy I would over think it and come up with some impossible scinerio which would lead to other scinerios until the obvious finaly slapped me in the face likely after spending several hundered dollars on solunition that i was convinced were the issue. But that is just me. Good luck.

[Troops2990]

100 yards and 200 yard in my experiance is a big differnece. It might not seem like it but I find that I can get away with things at 100 yards (poor technique type things) and still get respectable groups but if I do not concentrate and focus on my fundamentals at 200 I see the same result you are experiancing. If I do focus I can tighten that group up considerably.

True but I can do decent groups with my 308 at this range so that makes me think it is the rifle or scope..maybe not

If it were me I would shoot my .308 then at 100 and shoot this one at 100 get feeling really good with both take the same ammo over to the 200 and not change anything. Shoot the .308 first and make sure I am happy with the group and then shoot the other and see how that goes. Then if not happy I would over think it and come up with some impossible scinerio which would lead to other scinerios until the obvious finaly slapped me in the face likely after spending several hundered dollars on solunition that i was convinced were the issue. But that is just me. Good luck.

Good idea, I was thinking about doing this, hopefully my problem solving goes something like you described.. minus the wasting a couple hundred dollars

[OldmanFCSA]

did you go back to 100 yards to verify groups could still be held at that range?

or did scope just happen to fail at same time you moved to 200 yards?

or does range at 200 yards cross a ravine or other terrain that would allow wind to affect bullet flight?


let us know when you find the answer.

[BBeckwith]

You think you have any issue with the bullet stabilizing in flight? Try it with a known factory round at both distances and see. That way at least your just wasting $20 on a box of Hornady VMax or something similar.

[Troops2990]

did you go back to 100 yards to verify groups could still be held at that range?

or did scope just happen to fail at same time you moved to 200 yards?

or does range at 200 yards cross a ravine or other terrain that would allow wind to affect bullet flight?


let us know when you find the answer.

I never went back to 100 yrds after it started acting up, I was getting rather upset and ran out of ammo anyways. I was shooting into a hayfield so the ground was level and the field is surrounded by trees so wind shouldn't have been to much of a factor.

You think you have any issue with the bullet stabilizing in flight? Try it with a known factory round at both distances and see. That way at least your just wasting $20 on a box of Hornady VMax or something similar.

Another good idea, thanks, i'll have to pick up a box or see if I have any laying around. Do you know what would cause the bullet to become unstabilized during its flight?? Besides obvious cosmetic flaws?

[AFTERMATH]

Any key-holing?

Make sure nothing's loose, try multiple brands of ammo, and post pics of your targets for analysis.
Oh, an dial back on that magnification! Even if it's not an issue of POI changing with magnification, or the plethora of other issues that low-end variable power scopes have - Too much magnification is a bad thing. If you can see your target, you're dialed in more than enough.