Rifle Barrel Break-In??

[PowderBurn14]

I just purchased a new Howa 1500 Targetmaster rifle in .308 win. The rifle came with instructions for breaking in the barrel. Howa suggests the shoot once and clean for the first 10 rounds and then shoot 2 and clean for another 10 rounds. They also say to not use any brushes or oil during the break-in period. I've shot 12 rounds so far and have followed their instructions but I am seeing alot of copper fouling in the barrel. I am using Hoppes #9 for the powder fouling and Shooters Choice Copper Remover for the copper fouling. The copper fouling has proved to be especially stubborn and does not want to come out completely. I want to follow Howa's instruction but I don't want to leave a bunch of copper in the bore and let it build up. I have read about barrel break-in from many websites and it seems like everyone has different ways to do it, some basic, some very complex. So, what break-in procedures have members here used? Should I use a brass brush to get the copper out? Different copper solvent? Should abrasive paste cleaners be used to remove copper and smooth the barrel? What really works and what is just a waste of time and ammo? Please help. Thanks

[mnhntr]

This is the procedure I used on 3 of my rifles. I am no expert but I have read from very accomplished shooters that all a break in does is wear the barrel. It is basically useless. I also read other accomplished shooters say they would always break in a rifle. I do not think it can hurt so I do it.
http://www.rifle-accuracy-reports.com/b ... ak-in.html

[OldmanFCSA]

If you can find 28-33% auqueos ammonia, like at swimming pool stores, it will eat copper without damage to barrel.

BUT DO IT OUTSIDE - IT WILL KILL YOU OTHERWISE - FUMES ARE DANGEROUS - MIX in some Joy soap to reduce evaporation rate.

It will destroy brass connections on rod and brass brushes very quickly.

Otherwise use BoreTec Eliminator, it iks good, Copper Remover.

[Hoot]

I should do what the manufacturer recommends as long as A) They recommend something and B) It makes sense. Howa does not make sense. Before breaking in a barrel, I run JB compound liberally through it alternating between brush and patches. I clean the brush every time I go to the patches, with aerosol degreaser. The bristles get the JB down into the inside corners of the grooves. Patches tend to skirt across the inside corners. I clean out the residue with repeated patching using Kroil. I repeat until the brush is wore down to where it doesn't provide much resistance to passing down the bore. I clean the brush one more time and it's now a brush for the next smaller caliber rifle I own. By then, passing a dry patch through, I don't feel sharpies tearing on the patch. That's where copper buildup will be exacerbated. When the bore is like butter to the patch, then I go to the range and do the shoot 1, clean 1, shoot 2, clean 2, etc. That process IMHO, pounds out the irregularities which is what I want to achieve. You can't patch out those kinds of irregularities. Of all the different ways I've done barrel breakins, doing them dry simply does not make sense and fails part B).

As you noted, barrel breakin varies from none and some high-end manufacturers do it for you before you get the barrel by lapping, to all kinds of OCD extremes. I hope you don't think my method falls into that category. I doubt you'll get many folks to agree on one kind of breakin fits all, but I can't imagine anyone saying to do it dry. Almost all barrel cleaning liquids contain oil and solvents. Hard to avoid any oil. Maybe MP7 which is water based. Using just a solvent will leave the barrel terribly dry and more likely to get embossed with copper from each shot.

Anecdotal observations while usually given in complete honesty, can be flawed. My rifle barrels are still in service and working well. They don't incur unduly high amounts of copper buildup between cleaning. That's all I can tell you for certain.

Hoot

[Rip Van Winkle]

Last summer at the National Matches I got to shoot and talk with Steve Satern of Satren Machining. I asked him his recommendation on barrel break in.

He said, "Just shoot the #$&@ thing and it'll be broke in".

[Hoot]

Last summer at the National Matches I got to shoot and talk with Steve Satern of Satren Machining. I asked him his recommendation on barrel break in.

He said, "Just shoot the #$&@ thing and it'll be broke in".

I've done two barrel changes for customers who bought expensive Satern barrels. Steve is correct about his barrels. Not all barrels receive such attention to details though as his people give them.

Hoot

[xd ED]

Last summer at the National Matches I got to shoot and talk with Steve Satern of Satren Machining. I asked him his recommendation on barrel break in.

He said, "Just shoot the #$&@ thing and it'll be broke in".

I'm no expert, but I read the same advice from many high end barrel makers.

It makes me wonder if that advise( Just Shoot It) is valid for a precision/ custom barrel, but that a standard run of the mill barrel might also benefit from break-in procedures like the one described.

There are some strong opinions from people I respect suggesting both.

[jshuberg]

The following is an explanation and procedure for breaking in a Krieger barrel:

With any premium barrel that has been finish lapped -- such as your Krieger Barrel --, the lay or direction of the finish is in the direction of the bullet travel, so fouling is minimal compared to a barrel with internal tooling marks. This is true of any properly finish-lapped barrel regardless of how it is rifled. If it is not finish-lapped, there will be reamer marks left in the bore that are directly across the direction of the bullet travel. This occurs even in a button-rifled barrel as the button cannot completely iron out these reamer marks.

Because the lay of the finish is in the direction of the bullet travel, very little is done to the bore during break-in, but the throat is another story. When your barrel is chambered, by necessity there are reamer marks left in the throat that are across the lands, i.e. across the direction of the bullet travel. In a new barrel they are very distinct; much like the teeth on a very fine file. When the bullet is forced into the throat, copper dust is removed from the jacket material and released into the gas which at this temperature and pressure is actually a plasma. The copper dust is vaporized in this plasma and is carried down the barrel. As the gas expands and cools, the copper comes out of suspension and is deposited in the bore. This makes it appear as if the source of the fouling is the bore when it is actually for the most part the new throat. If this copper is allowed to stay in the bore, and subsequent bullets and deposits are fired over it, copper which adheres well to itself, will build up quickly and may be difficult to remove later. So when we break in a barrel, our goal is to get the throat “polished” without allowing copper to build up in the bore. This is the reasoning for the "fire-one-shot-and-clean" procedure.

The following is a guide to "break-in" based on our experience. This is not a hard and fast rule, only a guide. Some barrel, chamber, bullet, primer, powder, pressure, velocity etc. combinations may require more cycles some less. It is a good idea to just observe what the barrel is telling you with its fouling pattern and the patches. But once it is broken in, there is no need to continue breaking it in.

Initially you should perform the shoot-one-shot-and-clean cycle for five shots. If fouling hasn't reduced, fire five more cycles and so on until fouling begins to drop off. At that point shoot three shots before cleaning and observe. If fouling is reduced, fire five shots before cleaning. Do not be alarmed if your seating depth gets longer during break in. This is typical of the “high” spots in the throat being knocked down during this procedure. It is not uncommon for throat length to grow .005”-.030” from a fresh unfired chamber during break in.

Every barrel will vary slightly in how many rounds they take to break in For example a chrome moly barrel may take longer to break in than stainless steel because it is more abrasion resistant even though it is a similar hardness. Also chrome moly has a little more of an affinity for copper than stainless steel so it will usually show a little more "color" if you are using a chemical cleaner. Rim Fire barrels can take an extremely long time to break in, sometimes requiring several hundred rounds or more. But cleaning can be lengthened to every 25-50 rounds. The break-in procedure and the cleaning procedure are really the same except for the frequency. Remember the goal is to get or keep the barrel clean while breaking in the throat with bullets being fired over it.

Finally, the best way to tell if the barrel is broken in is to observe the patches; i.e. when the fouling is reduced. This is better than some set number of cycles of "shoot and clean" as many owners report practically no fouling after the first few shots, and more break-in would be pointless. Conversely, if more is required, a set number would not address that either. Besides, cleaning is not a completely benign procedure so it should be done carefully and no more than necessary.

http://www.kriegerbarrels.com/Break_In_ ... wp2558.htm

Use a single piece, coated cleaning rod with a nylon brush and bore guide to prevent damage to the barrel during the break in/cleaning. For a copper solvent, I'd recommend KG-12. It's ammonia free, and beats many other popular copper solvents in testing:
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/144092 ... lvent-4-oz
http://www.laniganperformance.com/kg12testresults.html

Also note that with cheaper barrels, tiny, often microscopic imperfections in the barrel can be polished off during firing and left behind in the barrel. Because steel can scratch steel, you want to remove any of these little bits before firing another round to prevent scratching of the crown.

Some people think this is important, some people think it's all voodoo. Just about everyone agrees that a break in procedure won't hurt anything, provided you don't damage the barrel during the act of cleaning it. The pattern of how your rifle will foul, and what you'll see when you break it in will vary from barrel to barrel. I had a lot of carbon, but little noticeable copper in the Krieger barrel in my GAP-10 until my 2nd group of 5 round shots. Then all of a sudden the copper fouling started getting really heavy. Pay attention to your patches, and lay them out on the bench so you can compare them during the break in. If your going to do a break in, take your time. It's time consuming and really kind of sucks, but if you rush it you risk damaging your barrel.

[OldmanFCSA]

Last summer at the National Matches I got to shoot and talk with Steve Satern of Satren Machining. I asked him his recommendation on barrel break in.

He said, "Just shoot the #$&@ thing and it'll be broke in".

Steve's Dad, Wayne is the one who got me started with cleaning with ammonia on our 50BMG barrels due to increased surface area for cleaning.

But it's true = a well made barrel requires little break-in, besides if you destroy a barrel, they will gladly sell you a new one.

[Pat]

How about using a bore snake for cleaning between shots?

[Hoot]

How about using a bore snake for cleaning between shots?

That would probably suffice if you give it a squirt of Hoppes every couple of shots and shake it out.
Sure beats taking up a shooting position next to you with the gun vise and cleaning gear or continuously going back to your tailgate.
If that was the direction I took, I'd be inclined to hose it off with some rapidly evaporating, CFC/HFC based brake cleaner every 5 or 6 passes, just to get the cheese out, depending upon how dirty the loads you're breaking in with run.

BTW, love your avatar!

Hoot

[goalie]

Last summer at the National Matches I got to shoot and talk with Steve Satern of Satren Machining. I asked him his recommendation on barrel break in.

He said, "Just shoot the #$&@ thing and it'll be broke in".

I have heard many a Distinguished rifleman state that a GOOD barrel doesn't need a "break-in" also.

[Erud]

Last summer at the National Matches I got to shoot and talk with Steve Satern of Satren Machining. I asked him his recommendation on barrel break in.

He said, "Just shoot the #$&@ thing and it'll be broke in".

I have heard many a Distinguished rifleman state that a GOOD barrel doesn't need a "break-in" also.

I feel like I'm a pretty Distinguished Rifleman and I don't break in barrels.

[JFettig]

My procedure - run a patch thru after the first shot, then enjoy

"Break-in" procedures are only for taking 10% of the life off the barrel.

[JJ]

"Break-in" procedures are only for taking 10% of the life off the barrel.

^this