SBR laws?

[dubya]

I just picked up a NIB Colt LE6920 for $1,050 and I'm thinking I'd really like to buy a 14.5" barrel for it but I've found conflicting answers on if a SBR is legal here in our great state. If so, what's the best route to take to get the stamp? I live in Anoka county if that matters.

Thank you

[xd ED]

I am not a primary source of info on the topic, but if you search around this forum you will find excellent and thorough advice.
Search for 'sbr' and/ or 'trust'.

ETA: http://www.mnguntalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=31595&start=0&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&hilit=trust

[Hmac]

SBRs are legal in Minnesota. You need to decide between trust and individual as a means of registering it. If the Anoka County Sheriff or your local Chief of Police will sign off on a Form 1, individual might be your easiest and cheapest route. If your chief LEO in your jurisdiction won't sign off on an SBR, trust is your only option for the time being.

IMHO, not much practical difference between a 14.5 inch barrel and the stock barrel on your 6920, but once the lower is registered as an SBR, you can put any barrel or upper on it that you want. Congratulations on that rifle BTW. It's a great firearm and you got it for a great price these days.

[dubya]

SBRs are legal in Minnesota. You need to decide between trust and individual as a means of registering it. If the Anoka County Sheriff or your local Chief of Police will sign off on a Form 1, individual might be your easiest and cheapest route. If your chief LEO in your jurisdiction won't sign off on an SBR, trust is your only option for the time being.

IMHO, not much practical difference between a 14.5 inch barrel and the stock barrel on your 6920, but once the lower is registered as an SBR, you can put any barrel or upper on it that you want. Congratulations on that rifle BTW. It's a great firearm and you got it for a great price these days.

Thank you for the quick responses guys. So I should try the St. Francis police Chief first then the Anoka county sheriff, or should I try the county sheriff first? I'm sure St. Francis would sign off, its fairly small town and I know a few officers but just in case...
Yeah, I realize 1.5" isn't much at all but it's more nimble and closer to the real thing. I REALLY wish I could SBS my Saiga 12 shotgun, that'd be a great HD gun!
I lucked out on the Colt and I'm glad I found it. I have a Bushmaster C15, S&W MP15 OR, a DPMS lower I recently built, the Colt and my favorite, an Aero lower and BCM upper 6.8 SPC build I just finished. I'm happy with 16" on all but the Colt "M4" would be great at 14.5" (or even 12.5").

[NMRMN]

I say if you are going to go 14.5, just get the muzzle device pinned and welded (for overall 16.1 or whatever)

If you plan going through all the paperwork, time and expense, why not have some fun and go 10.5 (or 12.5)?

[dubya]

That's almost what I'm thinking. 12.5" might be ideal and after a Vortex flash hider it'd be close to 14.5 anyway so it sounds good
I'm not in any hurry to do the "conversion" and get the stamp but I'm most likely going to get the ball rolling this coming week.
Do I need a seperate stamp for each SBR or is it the stamp then you just need to register each lower or firearm I'd want to SBR? Sorry for the noon questions guys, I'm sure there's plenty if I used the search function but laws and opinions change with the seasons.

Thanks!

dubs

[Hmac]

That's almost what I'm thinking. 12.5" might be ideal and after a Vortex flash hider it'd be close to 14.5 anyway so it sounds good
I'm not in any hurry to do the "conversion" and get the stamp but I'm most likely going to get the ball rolling this coming week.
Do I need a seperate stamp for each SBR or is it the stamp then you just need to register each lower or firearm I'd want to SBR? Sorry for the noon questions guys, I'm sure there's plenty if I used the search function but laws and opinions change with the seasons.

Thanks!

dubs

One stamp per lower, but you can put any barrel length upper on it after you get the stamp. It takes 6-7 months to complete the process.

No reason not to just go ahead and send in the Form 1 on your Colt lower. It doesn't commit you to any particular configuration.

IMHO 11.5 inches is the sweet spot for short barrel performance, barrel length vs dwell time, although some mfgrs have a pretty good track record with 10.3 - 10.5.

[dubya]

Okay so looking around I found a factory 11.5" rifle I want, the Colt LE6933 Commando. They cost about $1800-$2000 NIB on GunBroker and after searching online it'd bemuch easier to buy a ccomplete rifle than trying to find an 11.5" Colt M4 barrel (which I found none for sale).
That's where the confusion comes in. Can I apply for the SBR stamp then buy the Colt LE6933 Commando from wherever I want, or when I apply do I need to have a specific rifle or lower in mind and apply using that serial number?
Sorry for all the rook questions on NFA laws, I've never really been interested in them until now.

[67camaro]

Okay so looking around I found a factory 11.5" rifle I want, the Colt LE6933 Commando. They cost about $1800-$2000 NIB on GunBroker and after searching online it'd bemuch easier to buy a ccomplete rifle than trying to find an 11.5" Colt M4 barrel (which I found none for sale).
That's where the confusion comes in. Can I apply for the SBR stamp then buy the Colt LE6933 Commando from wherever I want, or when I apply do I need to have a specific rifle or lower in mind and apply using that serial number?
Sorry for all the rook questions on NFA laws, I've never really been interested in them until now.

No, your form 1 has to be for the item you want to purchase i.e. has to have a serial number on the form.

If you want to go that route you would need to purchase the rifle have it sent to a class 3 FFL and then fill out your paperwork wait 6+ months then go pick up your rifle. IMO its best just to do a form 1 on an existing lower you own and SBR it from there otherwise you have a 2000+ dollar rifle just sitting at a dealer that you maybe can go look at every once in a while if the FFL is nice guy.

[Hmac]

Okay so looking around I found a factory 11.5" rifle I want, the Colt LE6933 Commando. They cost about $1800-$2000 NIB on GunBroker and after searching online it'd bemuch easier to buy a ccomplete rifle than trying to find an 11.5" Colt M4 barrel (which I found none for sale).
That's where the confusion comes in. Can I apply for the SBR stamp then buy the Colt LE6933 Commando from wherever I want, or when I apply do I need to have a specific rifle or lower in mind and apply using that serial number?
Sorry for all the rook questions on NFA laws, I've never really been interested in them until now.

You have to buy the rifle and it will be shipped to an FFL of your choosing as long as he has a Class III SOT stamp. Your application form is for a specific rifle so you have to enter its model number, serial number, barrel length, etc). After your dealer gets the rifle, you then fill out a Form 4 (transfer, as opposed to a Form 1 for a rifle that you make), send it to the ATF NFA Branch, wait 6-7 months, then your Class III dealer can give you the rifle. I don't know what most Class III's charge for this service, especially if you don't buy the SBR from them.

Barrels that will fit an AR15, even complete SBR uppers, are available from places like BCM, Noveske, Daniel Defense, Centurion Arms...you just have to order them and wait. In the meantime, you can still shoot your 6920 while you're waiting. You have 6 months to kill anyway. I note that Bravo Company actually has them in stock for purchase now... http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/AR15-M16 ... es-s/3.htm . Complete SBR uppers are generally OOS most places, but many of most will let you order one and get your name on a list.

Bottom line, if you buy an SBR, you won't get to shoot it for 6-7 months. If you buy a 6920, you can fill out a Form 1 as soon as you get the rifle but you can shoot the stock 6920 all you want. Meanwhile, you can order a short barrel or SBR upper, presumably it will arrive somewhere in that 6-7 month time frame, and when you get the stamp you can put the SBR barrel or upper on it and shoot the 6920 in either configuration.

[dubya]

You're 100% right, that'd be the easiest and cheapest route. I'm going to see if my FFL guy (Firing Line Sports) can do the transfer of the 6933 anyway because I would like to have the "real deal" Colt SBR. Even if I could find just a 11.5" Colt barrel I'd be happy and just install it on the 6920. Thanks guys, all the info is great.

Cory

[jshuberg]

Legally speaking, if you are in posession of a barrel length less than 16", and you also have an AR-15 rifle lower, and don't currently own an SBR or pistol lower, you can be found to be in constructive possession of an unregistered NFA weapon. Just a heads up.

[rukwikenuf]

Legally speaking, if you are in posession of a barrel length less than 16", and you also have an AR-15 rifle lower, and don't currently own an SBR or pistol lower, you can be found to be in constructive possession of an unregistered NFA weapon. Just a heads up.

correct. similar to having your ammunition next to a gun in a case, certain LE agencies would look at it as a loaded gun.

however, a STRIPPED lower can have intent to manufacture into a pistol, so if you've got a bbl less than 16" and a STRIPPED lower, you could explain to the theoretical officer that it's going to be constructed as a pistol.

remember IANAL. this is not legal advice

[AR-15collector]

Do LEO actually verify a flash/ comp is actually pinned or welded? I looked at a 14.5 upper at Fleet and it didn't look welded at all. Is that legal?

[Hmac]

From a practical standpoint...well, I don't envision ATF agents out on NFA patrol. If they ever DO stop by my house, I hope they don't "constructive possession" me when they find my hacksaw in the same room as my shotgun.

Do LEO actually verify a flash/ comp is actually pinned or welded? I looked at a 14.5 upper at Fleet and it didn't look welded at all. Is that legal?

I don't know if Minnesota police are inclined to try to enforce Federal law.