A comp and defense AR Platorm?

[lizard55033]

I'm looking at getting back into the AR rifles; its been some time.
The use will be just plain fun shoots, defense, as well as possibly entry level 3 gun comps.

I have been looking at either a Stag, Del-Ton, or DPMS. Trying to stay less than or vear $1000

Anyone have any experience with the Stag or Del-Ton?

[rugersol]

If ya get this bbl ... http://www.midwayusa.com/product/688404/

... and a decent BCG, and a nice trigger, ya should end up with what ya want!

Ya could put a $30 model-1 free-float tube on, to start ... then upgrade later, if ya want!

Gonna be tough to otherwise find a complete free-float gun with that nice of a BCG n trigger, near $1,000!

[coltpython123]

build your own easy to do and for 1000 you can really make a nice rifle. stay away from del-ton. i would check into palmetto state, spikes, or bravo companey but if you were to go with an ar and wanted to spend a little more buy a colt le all milspec and there tried and tested.

[rugersol]

If ya get this bbl ... http://www.midwayusa.com/product/688404/

if yer not ok buildin it yourself, from what I heard, ya could probly get that bbl (only cause the odds of otherwise gettin one, nearly as nice, are probly purdy low), take it to ... I think it's called Atomic Tactical? ... and cherry-pick the rest of yer build ... and they'll put it together for ya!

[Hmac]

If you're talking defense and entry-level 3-gun, you will likely want something better than the consumer-grade rifles you mentioned. You can pay a couple of hundred dollars more and get a substantially better rifle in the Colt 6920.

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Colt-LE6920-C ... O/21677322

[yuppiejr]

... If your budget is $1000 with the requirements stated above I'd look at something like this (Palmetto State Armory build)

PSA Gadsden Lower (you can get the non Gadsden version for $10 less and be less cool, of course ) http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.ph ... lower.html



PSA Full auto bolt carrier: http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.ph ... group.html



PSA ACS-L lower build kit (milspec buffer tube, standard GI trigger): http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.ph ... black.html



PSA SQH 16" midlength upper with 13" free float tube installed (cosmetic blem): http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.ph ... -duty.html



Total price before shipping is $1020...

You can save $100 by going with a different daily deal upper here:

http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.ph ... -duty.html



Note that a couple of the items (BCG and lower build kit + the cheaper upper) are on special right now, likely price will go up shortly. If you want to improve the trigger pull a bit for now while you wait to purchase something better down the road a cheap set of JP reduced power springs will do wonders for a stock trigger for around $10. If you go with the cheaper upper you should be able to add-in a set of Magpul MBUS sights and cover shipping while staying at your 1k budget.

If you wanted a Colt, I'd suggest talking to our very own Thunderjohn (local FFL and damn fine human being) who has some listed for sale here: viewtopic.php?f=49&t=44865&p=475928#p475928

[codilly]

... If your budget is $1000 with the requirements stated above I'd look at something like this (Palmetto State Armory build)

PSA Gadsden Lower (you can get the non Gadsden version for $10 less and be less cool, of course ) http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.ph ... lower.html



PSA Full auto bolt carrier: http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.ph ... group.html



PSA ACS-L lower build kit (milspec buffer tube, standard GI trigger): http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.ph ... black.html



PSA SQH 16" midlength upper with 13" free float tube installed (cosmetic blem): http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.ph ... -duty.html



Total price before shipping is $1020...

You can save $100 by going with a different daily deal upper here:

http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.ph ... -duty.html



Note that a couple of the items (BCG and lower build kit + the cheaper upper) are on special right now, likely price will go up shortly. If you want to improve the trigger pull a bit for now while you wait to purchase something better down the road a cheap set of JP reduced power springs will do wonders for a stock trigger for around $10. If you go with the cheaper upper you should be able to add-in a set of Magpul MBUS sights and cover shipping while staying at your 1k budget.

If you wanted a Colt, I'd suggest talking to our very own Thunderjohn (local FFL and damn fine human being) who has some listed for sale here: viewtopic.php?f=49&t=44865&p=475928#p475928

Exactly what I was gonna suggest, with PSA's weekend deals and other on sale items you can get great deals! But they don't last so if you have the cash buy while you can, although I would suggest this deal for the lower and once again this deal will end tomorrow night http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.ph ... lower.html and this one for the BCG and charging handle http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.ph ... andle.html

[MNGunGuy]

If you're talking defense and entry-level 3-gun, you will likely want something better than the consumer-grade rifles you mentioned. You can pay a couple of hundred dollars more and get a substantially better rifle in the Colt 6920.

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Colt-LE6920-C ... O/21677322

I'd stay away from the 6920 or any other rifle that has a carbine gas system and/or a short rail. Having a longer (12+ inches) free float rail is a pretty big deal in something like 3-gun when it comes to being able to find supported firing positions.

[MissouriDave]

A friend of mine has the Stag Model 3 with the nice Diamondhead VRS handguard. It runs superbly and it was fairly inexpensive. That will get you into the matches and allow you to improve your skills and figure out what you may want to change later. You can run n gun without a long freefloat tube just fine.

[UnaStamus]

If you're talking defense and entry-level 3-gun, you will likely want something better than the consumer-grade rifles you mentioned. You can pay a couple of hundred dollars more and get a substantially better rifle in the Colt 6920.

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Colt-LE6920-C ... O/21677322

I'd stay away from the 6920 or any other rifle that has a carbine gas system and/or a short rail. Having a longer (12+ inches) free float rail is a pretty big deal in something like 3-gun when it comes to being able to find supported firing positions.

There are handguards by JP Rifles, Daniel Defense, Centurion and Troy that extend a rail beyond the FSP. I think the point HMAC was trying to make was that it's better to get a proven reliable rifle.
They're also pretty accurate rifles. Our LE6921 rifles are punching 1-1.5MOA with Aimpoints using duty-grade JSP. Using match grade SMK and magnification could easily yield better. The Colt 6920 is a solid platform. It's a base rifle that offers a solid platform.

[codilly]

If you're talking defense and entry-level 3-gun, you will likely want something better than the consumer-grade rifles you mentioned. You can pay a couple of hundred dollars more and get a substantially better rifle in the Colt 6920.

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Colt-LE6920-C ... O/21677322

I'd stay away from the 6920 or any other rifle that has a carbine gas system and/or a short rail. Having a longer (12+ inches) free float rail is a pretty big deal in something like 3-gun when it comes to being able to find supported firing positions.

There are handguards by JP Rifles, Daniel Defense, Centurion and Troy that extend a rail beyond the FSP. I think the point HMAC was trying to make was that it's better to get a proven reliable rifle.
They're also pretty accurate rifles. Our LE6921 rifles are punching 1-1.5MOA with Aimpoints using duty-grade JSP. Using match grade SMK and magnification could easily yield better. The Colt 6920 is a solid platform. It's a base rifle that offers a solid platform.

That would put him even further over budget. I just ordered all the parts to do what he is looking for and it came in at $886 shipped but those deals end tonight.

[UnaStamus]

Cutting costs has it consequences. Just because something is a deal doesn't mean it's ideal.

[rugersol]

Cutting costs Paying extra has it consequences. Just because something is not a deal doesn't mean it's ideal.

fixed it!

[Hmac]

I think the point HMAC was trying to make was that it's better to get a proven reliable rifle.
They're also pretty accurate rifles. Our LE6921 rifles are punching 1-1.5MOA with Aimpoints using duty-grade JSP. Using match grade SMK and magnification could easily yield better. The Colt 6920 is a solid platform. It's a base rifle that offers a solid platform.

Yeah, I consider the 6920 to be the best rifle from a cost/reliability standpoint. I think that the OP should learn the platform, find out what suits him and what doesn't, make the changes that reflect those needs/preferences, and do so with a quality rifle rather than some price-point consumer piece with the latest in cost-cutting technology.

Certainly the OP can pay less if quality and reliability aren't as important to him relative to his needs. An $800 range toy may be completely satisfactory depending on his requirements or expectations.

[yuppiejr]

I think the point HMAC was trying to make was that it's better to get a proven reliable rifle.
They're also pretty accurate rifles. Our LE6921 rifles are punching 1-1.5MOA with Aimpoints using duty-grade JSP. Using match grade SMK and magnification could easily yield better. The Colt 6920 is a solid platform. It's a base rifle that offers a solid platform.

Yeah, I consider the 6920 to be the best rifle from a cost/reliability standpoint. I think that the OP should learn the platform, find out what suits him and what doesn't, make the changes that reflect those needs/preferences, and do so with a quality rifle rather than some price-point consumer piece with the latest in cost-cutting technology.

Certainly the OP can pay less if quality and reliability aren't as important to him relative to his needs. An $800 range toy may be completely satisfactory depending on his requirements or expectations.

Didn't the US military switch suppliers from Colt to FN (OEM for most of the Palmetto stuff) and/or Remington with their last few batches of M4 carbines?

Is there specific, statistical proof that Colt AR15 pattern rifles are better than any other brand out there that otherwise adheres to the same milspec kit of parts modified for semi-auto civilian use? I hear this line of thinking a lot but other than a cool roll-mark and oddball size trigger/hammer pins I see the same collection of owner complaint threads on Colt rifles via Google as I do most other mainstream make/models... I'm not saying statistical proof doesn't exist, I just haven't found it if it does...

My read on Colt's "superiority" in the marketplace and as a supplier to the US military has a lot to do with history and their army of ambulance chasers beating everyone else up with lawsuits and royalty payments. Pretty much everyone out there is picking from the same lower parts kits and full-auto style bolt carriers, most lowers regardless of the roll mark come from one of 4-5 OEM's... it pretty much comes down to who makes the barrel and stick it all together/provides the warranty.

Again, I think given the OP's requirements and budget there are plenty of good options that will serve him reliably - particularly Palmetto State Armory/FN offerings (if you don't mind waiting forever for it to ship...). Colt makes a good rifle and supports it well if there are problems but I have a hard time with the notion that anything but a Colt is a "range toy."