Project Appleseed recommendations?

[jdege]

I've been musing about maybe signing up for a Project Appleseed course, this summer, and I'm wondering about what rifle to use.

I have two that could possibly fit the bill, a CZ 527 and a Ruger Mini 14.

When it comes to hitting a target, the Mini 14 isn't the most accurate in the world. Truth is, I'm not all that accurate with a rifle, either, which is why I'm considering the course. But trying to build accuracy with an inaccurate gun isn't something that I've ever had much success with.

On the other hand, the CZ is a bolt action, and while the instructions recommend bringing two ten-round magazines, as far as I can tell there aren't any ten-round magazines available for the CZ. So depending upon the course of fire, it just might not be suitable.

The third choice would be to pick up an inexpensive semi-auto .22LR. Buying a used 10/22, and firing off 400 rounds of .22LR might be cheaper than running through 400 rounds of my 5.56.

(I suppose, if I was a glutton for punishment, I could bring out my vz. 24 - but firing 400 rounds of 8mm Mauser isn't something to look forward to. And the only .22 rifle I have in my collection is an old Remington rolling block single-shot that my grandmother pulled out of a brush fire, 80 years ago, that I don't think has been used or cleaned since.)

[gaberelli]

Get the 10/22. It's a fun rifle to have and tinker with anyway. As someone who has done an Appleseed, I would say semi auto and 10 rds of recoiless 22 lr is the ticket.

Post up your thoughts after you do the project. I've been shooting my whole life and still found lots of marksmanship value when I did one a few years ago.


Heinous typos thanks to autocorrect.

[splithand]

Go with the autoloading 22 option. You don't need anything fancy but make sure you are able to mount a sling, the 1.25 inch cotton military sling is reccomemded. A low power scope (espicially for "old" eyes) or apperture sights work best

[linksep]

https://appleseedinfo.org/pdf/LTR.pdf

I chose a Marlin 795, cheaper than a 10/22 and supposedly much better accuracy than a 10/22 out of the box...but the 795 has very little aftermarket support compared to the 10/22. I originally planned on shooting centerfire, but figured for the price of 400-500 rounds centerfire I could buy a rimfire and have a better experience as well as another rifle.

[igofast]

Since you don't have a semi-auto .22 rifle - I think this is a perfect opportunity to expand your collection. If you don't like it, you can always sell it off - but I doubt you will.

My recommendation would be to go for a 10/22 or M&P15-22 - I lean toward the Ruger but the S&W has a solid following. If you can get a deal on a used 10/22 and want to kit it out that's an option, the other one is try and find a 50th Anniversary Rifle that has is ready to go for Appleseed.

[hornswaggle]

I've got a 10/22 with scope and trigger upgrade and it's a great shooter but I picked up a 795 at Fleet Farm on sale a couple years ago and I think it's actually a nicer shooter. With tech sights, sling, and extra mag I'm still under $200. I've wanted to do an appleseed too, maybe this year I'll actually make it to one.

[AFTERMATH]

All of the above are good recommendations.

But I would like to point out that, while the course may have some bias towards semi-autos with detachable magazines - they are by no means necessary. A bolt gun, while it may require a little more effort and a higher learning curve, is more than suitable.

As for magazines - if you've got two good mags that can hold 10 rds combined, that's adequate for most of what we do.

I don't want to discourage anyone from having the best set up they can to facilitate the learning process, but in the end the learning process is what's really important - so don't let any perceived equipment deficiencies hold you back. If you've got a rifle, sling and ammo the only other things you really NEED are a willingness/desire to learn and enough water/provisions to make it through the day/weekend. Everything else is just convenience/luxury.

[PhilaBOR]

All of the above are good recommendations.

But I would like to point out that, while the course may have some bias towards semi-autos with detachable magazines - they are by no means necessary. A bolt gun, while it may require a little more effort and a higher learning curve, is more than suitable.

As for magazines - if you've got two good mags that can hold 10 rds combined, that's adequate for most of what we do.

I don't want to discourage anyone from having the best set up they can to facilitate the learning process, but in the end the learning process is what's really important - so don't let any perceived equipment deficiencies hold you back. If you've got a rifle, sling and ammo the only other things you really NEED are a willingness/desire to learn and enough water/provisions to make it through the day/weekend. Everything else is just convenience/luxury.

On the other hand, a lot of the Appleseed is about qualifying for "Rifleman". Which is timed courses from a series of positions. I'm not saying don't bring a bolt gun. Just be aware you will be at a disadvantage. But you can still learn a lot.

[igofast]

All of the above are good recommendations.

But I would like to point out that, while the course may have some bias towards semi-autos with detachable magazines - they are by no means necessary. A bolt gun, while it may require a little more effort and a higher learning curve, is more than suitable.

As for magazines - if you've got two good mags that can hold 10 rds combined, that's adequate for most of what we do.

I don't want to discourage anyone from having the best set up they can to facilitate the learning process, but in the end the learning process is what's really important - so don't let any perceived equipment deficiencies hold you back. If you've got a rifle, sling and ammo the only other things you really NEED are a willingness/desire to learn and enough water/provisions to make it through the day/weekend. Everything else is just convenience/luxury.

On the other hand, a lot of the Appleseed is about qualifying for "Rifleman". Which is timed courses from a series of positions. I'm not saying don't bring a bolt gun. Just be aware you will be at a disadvantage. But you can still learn a lot.

Ultimately I'll defer to Aftermath - being an Appleseed instructor, but PhilaBOR has an excellent point as well. The Rifleman qual is:

The adapted AQT target requires 40 rounds, 10 for each stage, where:

Stage 1 (single silhouette; 10 rounds) is fired standing in 2 minutes, from a single magazine
Stage 2 (two silhouettes; 5 rounds and 5 rounds) is fired after transitioning from standing-to-sitting/kneeling with a magazine change and one NPOA shift in 55 seconds
Stage 3 (three silhouettes; 3 rounds, 3 rounds, 4 rounds) is fired after transitioning from standing-to-prone with a magazine change and two NPOA shifts in 65 seconds
Stage 4 (four silhouettes; 2 rounds, 2 rounds, 3 rounds, 3 rounds) is fired staying in prone from a single magazine in 5 minutes, slow-fire, with three NPOA shifts

So not only would the OP have to deal with cycling the action between shots, but also 2-3 mag changes since his CZ mag holds 5. I'm sure it's possible, but realistically the expectation of someone running that setup would just be learning the positions and not earning a patch(I would expect a new person to run out of time on 2 and 3).

I get that you should 'run what you have', but at least in my class many people were also learning their gun - which was difficult enough with a semi and 10 rounds. If you have 1000's of rounds experience with the bolt gun you'll be using it's a little bit of a different story. I would take a bolt gun my 2nd time thru to challenge myself since I wouldn't need to focus on learning the fundamentals(and don't have to worry about getting a patch).

[linksep]

As for magazines - if you've got two good mags that can hold 10 rds combined, that's adequate for most of what we do.

I don't want to discourage anyone from having the best set up they can to facilitate the learning process, but in the end the learning process is what's really important - so don't let any perceived equipment deficiencies hold you back.

The above seems pretty self explanatory, and I already have an implied answer from the above but instead of assuming, I do have a question regarding magazines... Is one 10-round and one 7-round mag, or one 10-round and two 7-round mags suitable for qualification? Retail 10-round mags for the 795 are rare as hen's teeth, but I did buy an additional 7-round mag at Fleet Farm the day I bought the rifle... I have the 795, the included 10-round mag, an additional 7-round mag, 1-1/4" uncle mike's swivels, 1-1/4" cotton sling, and tech-sights. Do I have a 20% or better chance of shooting "Rifleman"? (Very low experience with long-guns.)

[farmerj]

My understanding of Appleseed is it is a short course version of the NRA high power matches.

And when I read the course of fire requirements, it is the same from my recollection.

IF (capitalized) you can find a decent bolt gun with a 10 round magazine, do so. There is plenty of time to manipulate the bolt and complete the course.

Don't believe me, take any bolt gun and dry fire a course some time.

This course is about position shooting. Not speed shooting. Look at the course history of the original format. It was fired solidly with 1880's designed rifles to begin with. All bolt guns. Heck, even the m1 garand only uses an 8-round enbloc.

Leave the hightechno speed racers at home and enjoy the basics.

Have I shot an Appleseed, no. Will I? Not likely. But come join us on the CMP matches and see what really good fun is. All the way to 1000 yards.

[linksep]

Thanks farmer but appleseed is next weekend. As above I have a Marlin 795 with one oe 10-round and one 7 round mag, tech-sights, sling and swivels. My dad's cabin is ~30 minutes away from the range so I have a place to sleep. At 6'00" and knocking on 300# I was hoping to get the Midway Pro shooting mat ($50) but it's back-ordered and unlikely to arrive before I need it, I guess moving blankets will have to suffice. OEM 10-round mags are on email notify but so far no luck and under a week before the event. I would love to go out and shoot rifeman on my first try (20% chance?), eliminating the return trip in July...

I'm trying to give myself every advantage within reason... most accurate .22lr Semi-auto, check; Tech-sights, check; attitude, check; skills/abilities... hopefully check.

[farmerj]

You have enough mags. Any more is nice just for reloading for the next course of fire so you are doing less or else for a mechanically malfunctioning magazine.

I shot CMP high power matches which is the same course of fire with an m1 garand. It loads 2 rounds into an 8 round enbloc. And then you reload.

These courses teach basic marksmanship over all else. What natural point of aim is and how to find it. So just sit back, relax and enjoy yourself.

Don't expect to make marksman first time out.

YouTube some videos on CMP high power shooting positions. I can't seem to get my phone to cooperate. These will show you for starters what you are getting into.

Heck, even a sleeping pad is all you really need for additional gear. Gives you a little padding to protect you from rocks etc when laying down. But not required.

[AFTERMATH]

As for magazines - if you've got two good mags that can hold 10 rds combined, that's adequate for most of what we do.

I don't want to discourage anyone from having the best set up they can to facilitate the learning process, but in the end the learning process is what's really important - so don't let any perceived equipment deficiencies hold you back.

The above seems pretty self explanatory, and I already have an implied answer from the above but instead of assuming, I do have a question regarding magazines... Is one 10-round and one 7-round mag, or one 10-round and two 7-round mags suitable for qualification? Retail 10-round mags for the 795 are rare as hen's teeth, but I did buy an additional 7-round mag at Fleet Farm the day I bought the rifle... I have the 795, the included 10-round mag, an additional 7-round mag, 1-1/4" uncle mike's swivels, 1-1/4" cotton sling, and tech-sights. Do I have a 20% or better chance of shooting "Rifleman"? (Very low experience with long-guns.)

A 10 and a 7 is good enough, assuming the mags are reliable.

As far as your chances of shooting "Rifleman" first time out, meh....

It depends greatly upon how quickly you can convert instruction into skill. Everyone progresses differently. I've seen people with years of experience, who do well all weekend, choke when we start firing AQT's. I've also seen folks who've pulled the rifle out of the box the night before, scoring expert by the end of the weekend. On average we probably only get 20-25% scoring Rifleman at any given event and generally those who do have been to one or two before.

One week out - if you're not already familiar with field positions, it's a good idea to start doing a little stretching every day. And practice some dry runs for the transition stages - essentially going from standing to seated or prone and inserting a magazine as quickly as possible. While you're at it, practice magazine changes. The 795 has a tiny little mag release, and they generally don't drop free, but with a fair amount of practice, you should be able to do it with one hand. Use your thumb to actuate the release.

Show up with a clean/lubed rifle Saturday morn, and clean/lube it again for Sunday morning.

As farmerj said; sit back, relax and enjoy. Well teach you everything you need to know, and when you get to the AQT: Don't try to score Rifleman - just do it.