New .223 Rifle

Discussion of rifles, shotguns, and muzzleloaders

Re: New .223 Rifle

Postby xd ED on Fri May 15, 2015 8:28 pm

Jackpine Savage wrote:This is sounding like a Ford Chevy discussion but the mediocre stock Savages have been doing pretty well in competition.

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2009/08/savage-f-tr-team-world-beaters-on-a-budget/

I went the Savage route awhile back after reading a post on here by Ragged on how he put together a rifle. If the OP likes to tinker the one nice thing about Savage is the ability to put a new barrel on yourself. I used a Savage target action and a Shilen barrel purchased from Northland Shooters supply.

I just noticed Northland Shooter supply has a deal on Remington 783's. It looks like the sincerest form of flattery, the 783 has a floating bolt head, barrel nut, and trigger that looks just like Savage.


Comparing a CZ 527 to a Savage 12 F/T R is more of a Ford vs factory Team Corvette comparison. At 13#, and about $1300,(~2x the CZ on both counts) the Savage- which I doubt anyone considers mediocre- is a single purpose target rifle.
Few, if any believe the Team Savage shooters using 'factory' rifles simply grab the 1st available guns off the assembly line, likewise, their 'factory' Nightforce scopes are an item exclusive to them, and not available to the public...
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Re: New .223 Rifle

Postby Erud on Fri May 15, 2015 9:16 pm

Nightforce is making special scopes for team savage? Please elaborate on this.
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Re: New .223 Rifle

Postby xd ED on Fri May 15, 2015 9:42 pm

Erud wrote:Nightforce is making special scopes for team savage? Please elaborate on this.


http://www.fishingbuddy.com/team_savage_takes_national_title_breaks_1_000_yar?app_p=2

The scopes we ran were 100% Nightforce. All save one of these was an NXS, the other was a Benchrest variant. Almost all of the NXS scopes had either been built, or retrofitted as custom “Team USA Scopes”. These were a standard 12-42×56 NXS scope that had an 1/8 minute elevation turret installed,


It's been a while since I first read of this, so maybe current practice is different.
When I originally read about the scopes, I recall that this modification would not be made widely available. in spite of some demand for it.
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Re: New .223 Rifle

Postby Erud on Sat May 16, 2015 5:57 am

Interesting, I had not heard that before. Never seen that forum before either, thanks for the link!
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Re: New .223 Rifle

Postby Erud on Sat May 16, 2015 6:48 am

hammAR wrote:
So admittedly, “out of the box” for a mediocre platform doesn't really mean crap when one has to spend hundreds or even thousands of dollars to get it to shoot accurately..........

I do have a passing understanding of firearm platforms and their mechanisms. I normally shoot either my Chandler (308) or one of the Hospitallers (308 & 6.5-284), but the OP asked for entry level, out of the box as a first rifle for target shooting and varmint hunting.

I would point him to a CZ 550 Varmint 7.62 (308 Win) platform with a 25.6" barrel - $800-900 range. The CZ is a Mauser action with a single set-adjustable trigger. It's probably the best action out of those that have been listed. The 550 Varmint platform comes from the factory with a nice HS precision stock with aluminum bedding blocks and is fully floated from the factory. You can tell the difference in quality by picking it up, working the action or just plain looking at it.

I would put the out-the-box accuracy of it on par with rifles that are twice as expensive or take hundreds or even thousands of dollars to get it to shoot accurately, if you don't plan to tinker with it at all, the CZ may limit you, but will serve you well.

Why do I state that – because I bought one and the only changes from “out of the box” modifications were to add a Ken Ferrel 20 moa rail, some badger rings, and an old US Optics 5-25x scope to it. Shooting hand loaded 168gr. Sierra Match Kings, I sighted it in and quickly moved to shoot two twenty round strings at 600 yards for score. Using the SR-3 target, which had I believe a 3″ X-ring and a 7″ 10-ring and just hoped that my shots would cluster somewhere near the center of that space. Well round 1 was 196 – 9x and round 2 was 198 – 14x............I would generally call that sub-moa and that is “out of the box"!

So in conclusion, CZ makes a hell of a rifle that one could easily with confidence use to shoot F-Class Open or F-Class/Target Rifle (F/TR) category, let alone 100 yard targets and coyotes - but then again I am not addressing the .223 question/requirement of the OP - I just have extreme confidence with any CZ platform, therefore would recommend a CZ-527 Varmint (.223)- $700-800 Range.

For a beginner and first rifle, it all depends on how much you want to spend, how much you want to tinker, with the knowledge that there is a platform that shoots better than most of the shooters on this board can.


Are you one of those F-Class guys or something? How do you know how well most of the shooters on this board can shoot? :cogitating:
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Re: New .223 Rifle

Postby Currahee on Sat May 16, 2015 8:53 am

Erud wrote:
hammAR wrote:
For a beginner and first rifle, it all depends on how much you want to spend, how much you want to tinker, with the knowledge that there is a platform that shoots better than most of the shooters on this board can.


Are you one of those F-Class guys or something? How do you know how well most of the shooters on this board can shoot? :cogitating:


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Re: New .223 Rifle

Postby Erud on Sat May 16, 2015 10:02 am

Currahee wrote:
Erud wrote:
hammAR wrote:
For a beginner and first rifle, it all depends on how much you want to spend, how much you want to tinker, with the knowledge that there is a platform that shoots better than most of the shooters on this board can.


Are you one of those F-Class guys or something? How do you know how well most of the shooters on this board can shoot? :cogitating:


Image



Hmmm, why's that? Please elaborate.
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Re: New .223 Rifle

Postby hammAR on Sat May 16, 2015 11:43 am

Erud wrote:Are you one of those F-Class guys or something? How do you know how well most of the shooters on this board can shoot? :cogitating:

No, I do not shoot organized competition any more - but I did for almost 40 years.

How do I know how well most of the shooters on this board can shoot. I guess it would be from a culmination of three elements:
1) Observation of actual shooters from this board at many of the ranges that I shoot at
2) Observation of posts of actual members from this board
3) Statistics and facts.

There are a few on the board that actually shoot competition being; NRA High Power Rifle, Palma, F-Class, CMP, and FCSA.
Lets say maybe 20 participate on this board.

There are combined member numbers of the gun organizations/clubs that support and hold competitions; MMRA, Harris, Elk River, MRC, Red Wing, and Post 435 CMP.
Lets say maybe 100 participate on this board.

Then there are member numbers of this board; 5317

So how many members of this board only shoot pistols, how many poster only have one rifle that they shoot two or three times a year for deer, or how many like this poster are getting their first rifle, how many posters post and are proud of a 100 yd group, etc, etc, etc..........

I am not going to do the math for you to figure out what MOST is..............

I will stand by my post and again say that the CZ platform is capable of shooting better than most of the shooters on this board can. If you have the gumption and are totally assured that I am in left field, then I will put up my CZ and a $1,000 bet. You and I will pick a random ten folks off this board that are not registered NRA, Palma, F-Class, CMP, FCSA, or 8541 MOS/B4 ASI shooters, go to the Forest Lake 200/400 yd range and set up a competition. I pick the targets and you supply the ammo. Shooters will do all 3 positions - standing and sitting at 200 yds and prone at 400 yds. Every shooter uses the CZ, and each shooter gets one spotter and a twenty rounds per position. Anyone that outscores either you or I gets the CZ, and your individual score vs mine gets the $...................

Lets figure out what MOST is in reality................. :cheers:
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Re: New .223 Rifle

Postby Erud on Sat May 16, 2015 12:57 pm

Yikes, I must have touched a nerve! I don't doubt your claims about the CZ, was more just wondering what you were basing your "most shooters on this board" comment on. Your answer is pretty well thought out.

I have to admit though, that bet idea does sound pretty interesting! I don't really care much about the random board member part though. Just to be clear, I'd have to shoot your rifle? Seems like I'd be at a disadvantage there, as I've never been much of an optics shooter. Also, I haven't shot a single round sitting or standing since I won the MN state Highpower championship last June, so I'm probably a bit rusty. Just to make it fair, could we go double or nothing with my .308 rifle and gear in a 1000 yard face off? Sling and irons? You provide your own coat, or feel free to use one of mine if you are around a size 40.
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Re: New .223 Rifle

Postby hammAR on Sat May 16, 2015 2:09 pm

A Service Rifle at 1,000 yds - crap, I haven't been able to see iron sights in 15-20 years. Don't even have sights on my carry pistol............... :o

Now IF you used your Service Rifle and I used a Match Rifle - then we could at least have some fun...........

Sling is fine, but don't need no stinking shooting jacket............ :rotf:

Nerves are fine........:cheers:
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Re: New .223 Rifle

Postby Erud on Sat May 16, 2015 2:33 pm

hammAR wrote:A Service Rifle at 1,000 yds - crap, I haven't been able to see iron sights in 15-20 years. Don't even have sights on my carry pistol............... :o

Now IF you used your Service Rifle and I used a Match Rifle - then we could at least have some fun...........

Sling is fine, but don't need no stinking shooting jacket............ :rotf:

Nerves are fine........:cheers:


Nah, no service rifle, haven't shot one since 2010. Never had much love for it, just wanted the little gold badge and I put it away after that. 30" barrel on my .308 and sights are apertures, so vision isn't an issue like with SR. You would of course be welcome to shoot it without a coat, but if you want to win, I wouldn't recommend that.

Whatcha got for a match rifle? Maybe we've shot some matches together? I'm all about having fun!
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Postby Ironbear on Sat May 16, 2015 6:21 pm

Shame I'm so far away now... I'd buy tickets for this!!!
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Re:

Postby Currahee on Sat May 16, 2015 6:23 pm

Ironbear wrote:Shame I'm so far away now... I'd buy tickets for this!!!



+1... and I would have a side bet for any takers! :?

I am totally out of the conversation above... but the peanut gallery can be entertaining. :mrgreen:
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Re: New .223 Rifle

Postby farmerj on Sun May 17, 2015 12:25 am

But can they hit a gnats ass at 100 paces.......
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Re: New .223 Rifle

Postby Rip Van Winkle on Sun May 17, 2015 10:17 am

Can I Play?

It's been years since Nadine and I danced at 1,000 yards, and I'm sure we wouldn't have a prayer against Erik and his Palma rifle, but it would still be a good time. :lol:
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