So how good is a $629 AR-15???

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So how good is a $629 AR-15???

Postby Seismic Sam on Tue Aug 23, 2016 11:44 am

For some odd reason, considering the upcoming election, all the internet dealers and brick and mortar dealers seem bent on dropping the prices of AR-15 as far as they will go. About the only reason I can figure is that they are making hay while the sun shines, and possibly blowing through their inventory so they can order more. I would think if the Sum (Bitch) of All Fears is elected, the prices will go through the roof, but what do I know.

At any rate, I got a new S&W M&P 15 Sport 2, and shot the first 50 rounds through it yesterday at Oakdale, where I am a member. Before I get to the pictures, there is a caveat about the handloaded ammo. The cases were all the same headstamp (LC 04) that had been sized with a Bonanza Bench Rest size die, and then the Nosler 50 grain Ballistic Silertips were seated with a Bonanza Bench Rest seating die. As such, the runout on this ammo is 2 mils or less. The powder was weighed out with a Lee perfect powder measure, and while the average of 10 charges thrown was set to 24.0, the individual charges were NOT weighed.

The first ten rounds were used to sight in the cheap scope on the rifle, and then the two pictures below show the next 30 rounds that were fired:
All rounds were fired on the bench.

Image

Image

Needless to say, having a $629 new EBR that will print a solid group a bit under 2"" straight out of the box is good as far as I'm concerned!!
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Re: So how good is a $629 AR-15???

Postby Scratch on Tue Aug 23, 2016 12:29 pm

Nice! About time you got an AR.
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So how good is a $629 AR-15???

Postby gun_fan111v2 on Tue Aug 23, 2016 3:49 pm

Very nice! 100 yard line I assume?
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Re: So how good is a $629 AR-15???

Postby Hmac on Tue Aug 23, 2016 4:50 pm

Accuracy is far from the most important element in assessing the quality of an AR-15.
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Re: So how good is a $629 AR-15???

Postby Seismic Sam on Tue Aug 23, 2016 5:07 pm

Hmac wrote:Accuracy is far from the most important element in assessing the quality of an AR-15.


In some sense I'm sure your right, but at the end of the day or TSHTF either your bullets were on target and you're still alive, or you missed and you're dead. Yes, you can have jam failures and a lot of other things, but you're still dead if your gun runs like a Swiss watch but won't put the bullets on the target.
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Re: So how good is a $629 AR-15???

Postby Seismic Sam on Tue Aug 23, 2016 5:27 pm

Scratch wrote:Nice! About time you got an AR.


About TIME I got an AR????? This is just the first cheap one that I picked out of a large bunch of them. FYI, the first AR I bought was in 1975, and back then there was just ONE to choose from: The civilian Colt .223 rifle with a 20" barrel, AKA the Colt SP1. The 2nd one I got was from a small group of manufacturers that were then present, and it was the Armalite AR-10 in .308 with a 20" SS barrel. I later gave it to JP for some work, and he cryoed the barrel, free floated the barrel, put a brake on it, put in an adjustable gas block, and installed one of his early speed triggers. Sadly, the best the gun would group with every reloading tweek thrown in was an inch. The last AR I got until this one was was/is an evil mutation made by Tony Rumore of Broken Arrow, Oklahoma. You WILL find some incredible things if you Google that name. It was built on an AR-15 upper (rather than an AR-10) and the cartridge is the 50 Action Express. :o :shock: :? 8-) It has a 1 inch stainless barrel which would normally qualify as a bull barrel, but half of that diameter is BORE, so the walls are just 1/4" thick. In addition, this thing is hideously accurate, and it produces keyholed groups more often than not.

In conclusion, I've probably been shooting an AR longer than a substantial fraction of this board has been alive.
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Re: So how good is a $629 AR-15???

Postby Hmac on Tue Aug 23, 2016 5:28 pm

Seismic Sam wrote:
Hmac wrote:Accuracy is far from the most important element in assessing the quality of an AR-15.


In some sense I'm sure your right, but at the end of the day or TSHTF either your bullets were on target and you're still alive, or you missed and you're dead. Yes, you can have jam failures and a lot of other things, but you're still dead if your gun runs like a Swiss watch but won't put the bullets on the target.


It's a combat weapon, not a bench rest rifle. I want to be able to shoot an 8 inch group at 100 yards. There are very few ARs that won't do that and most will shoot 2-3 MOA. The weak spot isn't accuracy, it's reliablity. The most accurate M&P/Bushmaster/DPMS or other price-point rifle in the world is no good as a defensive rifle it it won't stay in the fight because of substandard parts and corner-cutting in the QA department.

Accuracy is not the most important component of an AR.
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Re: So how good is a $629 AR-15???

Postby Randygmn on Tue Aug 23, 2016 6:23 pm

Hmac wrote:Accuracy is far from the most important element in assessing the quality of an AR-15.


Of course, a bench mark would be heating up the barrel (4-5dumped mags) and then comparing the accuracy to a group shot immediately proceeding the mag dumps. The barrel quality is as important as to the quality of the bcg. Check for deformities along the way with that.
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Re: So how good is a $629 AR-15???

Postby Scratch on Tue Aug 23, 2016 6:41 pm

Seismic Sam wrote:
Scratch wrote:Nice! About time you got an AR.


About TIME I got an AR????? This is just the first cheap one that I picked out of a large bunch of them. FYI, the first AR I bought was in 1975, and back then there was just ONE to choose from: The civilian Colt .223 rifle with a 20" barrel, AKA the Colt SP1. The 2nd one I got was from a small group of manufacturers that were then present, and it was the Armalite AR-10 in .308 with a 20" SS barrel. I later gave it to JP for some work, and he cryoed the barrel, free floated the barrel, put a brake on it, put in an adjustable gas block, and installed one of his early speed triggers. Sadly, the best the gun would group with every reloading tweek thrown in was an inch. The last AR I got until this one was was/is an evil mutation made by Tony Rumore of Broken Arrow, Oklahoma. You WILL find some incredible things if you Google that name. It was built on an AR-15 upper (rather than an AR-10) and the cartridge is the 50 Action Express. :o :shock: :? 8-) It has a 1 inch stainless barrel which would normally qualify as a bull barrel, but half of that diameter is BORE, so the walls are just 1/4" thick. In addition, this thing is hideously accurate, and it produces keyholed groups more often than not.

In conclusion, I've probably been shooting an AR longer than a substantial fraction of this board has been alive.


Sorry, from your other recent posts, I thought you hadn't had one yet. I thought that was kinda weird...
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Re: So how good is a $629 AR-15???

Postby hammAR on Tue Aug 23, 2016 9:49 pm

NEVER assume anything with Sam - :doh:

I don't have my glasses on, but it appears that 13 out of 30 are not in one of the two groups....
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Re: So how good is a $629 AR-15???

Postby gman1868 on Tue Aug 23, 2016 10:39 pm

The M&P 15 Sport 2 is the best rifle on the market in the sub-$1k range. A good quality piece of hardware at a great price.
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Re: So how good is a $629 AR-15???

Postby Squib Joe on Wed Aug 24, 2016 6:14 am

I'm waiting for somebody to chime in about how you could have bought a a dozen different AR components from five different distributors, built it yourself, and if you bought it all on sale last Thursday and used a coupon and your Delta miles you would have saved 12 dollars.
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Re: So how good is a $629 AR-15???

Postby Randygmn on Wed Aug 24, 2016 6:39 am

Squib Joe wrote:I'm waiting for somebody to chime in about how you could have bought a a dozen different AR components from five different distributors, built it yourself, and if you bought it all on sale last Thursday and used a coupon and your Delta miles you would have saved 12 dollars.


I'm usually that guy, but for a one off, after buying all the necessary tools (vice, vice block, punches, AR tool, torque wrench, etc) there's no way it can be worth it when S&W and RUGER are putting out decent quality under $700. And then of course, there's the invaluable manufacturers warranty. None of this applies if the buyer insists on a CHF chromed, free floated barrel, though.
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Re: So how good is a $629 AR-15???

Postby Randygmn on Wed Aug 24, 2016 6:41 am

gman1868 wrote:The M&P 15 Sport 2 is the best rifle on the market in the sub-$1k range. A good quality piece of hardware at a great price.


Wrong. That would be the Colt LE6920 at around $900. Although the SW (and also Ruger) is the best budget ARs on the market.
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Re: So how good is a $629 AR-15???

Postby Seismic Sam on Wed Aug 24, 2016 6:57 am

hammAR wrote:NEVER assume anything with Sam - :doh:

I don't have my glasses on, but it appears that 13 out of 30 are not in one of the two groups....


They went through the hole at 6 o'clock, gunny!! And of ALL the people in this world to say something like that :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: You've shot more keyholed groups than Tootsie has peeked through!! And that's a LOT of keyholes!!
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