The Truth about 6.5 Ammo

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The Truth about 6.5 Ammo

Postby yukonjasper on Thu Aug 17, 2017 10:15 pm

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2016/06/josh-wayner/the-truth-about-6-5mm-ammo/

I was researching a caliber I don't know much about and came across this article on the 6.5. I was wondering what the difference between the Creedmoor and the Grendel was, according to this I should be content with the 308 for hunting. I have been contemplating something of the caliber for a modern sporting rifle.

Per the author :

Yes, the caliber is great at what it does. But it’s hardly better or more practical than .308 for use on game or the needs of the average rifleshooter. I’ve written before about the paradoxical notion of looking at 1000-yard ballistics when your rangeonly goes out to 200. Out of the nearly fifty people I know who own a modern 6.5mmrifle, exactly two have fired past 600 yards and only one managed to get up to fire past that. Sure, living out West affords more opportunities for longer range shooting, but let’s not kid ourselves here. Most rifle shooters, especially those east of the Mississippi, don’t get out past 500 yards enough to be truly proficient at extended ranges.

I'm interested in much more knowledgeable opinions.
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Re: The Truth about 6.5 Ammo

Postby Randygmn on Fri Aug 18, 2017 4:39 am

I've done a bit of research on the 6.5 creedmore, too. The important things to know are it has outstanding ballistic coefficient. It also fits in well into the AR platform. I'm not a hunter but have become very interested in exploring long range precision shooting (lrps). And that's the rub. The primary problem, which was also discussed in the TTAG article you linked, finding ranges PAST a 1000 yards is impossible, yet, past 1000 yards is where that cartridge shines. The other issue is that the ammo costs are very expensive. 6.5 creedmore has exploded in the last 18 months, and many more ammo choices are available, but they are all expensive. I expect in the next year or so we will see some low cost alternatives as it grows even more in popularity like we did with 300blk (which can be had starting at .49c per round). All of this is on the backdrop of .308, of course. Ammo is plentiful and much less expensive. And most importantly, at the ranges available to us (both hunting and lrps, .308 is equal in every way. Unless you have the opportunity to travel to shoot/hunt (I don't), I'm not sure where you'd get a chance to stretch its legs. Maybe you know a secret, lol?

Anyway, there are some pretty inexpensive 6.5 bolt guns, that are accurate, if you're just interested in scratching an itch for a new rifle. I'm still on the fence and am torn myself, because I'd also like a POF Revolution, which is a first of its kind AR in .308 with the same weight and dimensions, including bolt size, as a 5.56 AR.
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Re: The Truth about 6.5 Ammo

Postby Erud on Fri Aug 18, 2017 4:44 am

I didn't be read the article, but I agree that having the absolute best possible ballistics rarely makes a difference in real life. In any realistic hunting situation, the possibility that the difference between a kill or a miss will come down to whether you are shooting a 6.5 Creedmoor or a .308 is extremely unlikely. And you are also correct that most shooters will never shoot at distances where the ballistic advantage comes into play anyways.

I shoot in a lot of 1000 yard competitions. I have 2 cartridges for this type of match; a .308, and a 6mm wildcat based off of the .243 case. The 6mm is definitely the better performer, ballistically-speaking, but I have still managed all of my best scores with the .308. Why? I don't know for sure, but I suppose shooting 12,000 rounds of it in the last 4 years makes a difference. I recently put the 6mm away entirely and screwed another .308 barrel onto it too, so now it's just .308 for me all the time. I also took this same approach in 2014, and it was one of the best seasons I've ever had. Even though I am always shooting against people with ballistically superior cartridges, I still manage to do pretty well most of the time. If I'm being honest, I have to admit that most of my lost points are not due to ballistics or wind anyways, they are usually just bad shots.
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Re: The Truth about 6.5 Ammo

Postby Ghost on Fri Aug 18, 2017 5:52 am

Read here, especially LRRPF52's posts. He literally wrote the book on Grendel. He sold his .308 stuff and isn't looking back.
https://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_121/694112__308_GII_Based_AR_vs_6_5_grendel.html
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Re: The Truth about 6.5 Ammo

Postby ex-LT on Fri Aug 18, 2017 7:16 am

Randygmn wrote:I've done a bit of research on the 6.5 creedmore, too. The important things to know are it has outstanding ballistic coefficient. It also fits in well into the AR platform. I'm not a hunter but have become very interested in exploring long range precision shooting (lrps). And that's the rub. The primary problem, which was also discussed in the TTAG article you linked, finding ranges PAST a 1000 yards is impossible, yet, past 1000 yards is where that cartridge shines. The other issue is that the ammo costs are very expensive. 6.5 creedmore has exploded in the last 18 months, and many more ammo choices are available, but they are all expensive. I expect in the next year or so we will see some low cost alternatives as it grows even more in popularity like we did with 300blk (which can be had starting at .49c per round). All of this is on the backdrop of .308, of course. Ammo is plentiful and much less expensive. And most importantly, at the ranges available to us (both hunting and lrps, .308 is equal in every way. Unless you have the opportunity to travel to shoot/hunt (I don't), I'm not sure where you'd get a chance to stretch its legs. Maybe you know a secret, lol?

Anyway, there are some pretty inexpensive 6.5 bolt guns, that are accurate, if you're just interested in scratching an itch for a new rifle. I'm still on the fence and am torn myself, because I'd also like a POF Revolution, which is a first of its kind AR in .308 with the same weight and dimensions, including bolt size, as a 5.56 AR.

A little clarification is in order...

The 6.5CM fits into an AR-10 platform.
The 6.5 Grendel fits into an AR-15 platform. However, the head is a little larger than the 5.56, so you will need a different bolt. In addition, you will need different magazines.
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Re: The Truth about 6.5 Ammo

Postby ex-LT on Fri Aug 18, 2017 7:22 am

A few arguments in favor of getting a 6.5 CM (even if you don't NEED one)...

Winchester XPR - $280*
Savage 11 DOA - $350*
Browning AB3 - $350*
Browning XBolt - $700**

* after $100 rebate
** after $50 rebate
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The Truth about 6.5 Ammo

Postby acs75 on Fri Aug 18, 2017 7:28 am

He is referring to this. 308 in AR-15

https://pof-usa.com/revolution/

But I'm a 6.5 guy. I own 260 rem's. I don't hunt. Just long range target. 308 ballisticly challenged and to much recoil.
But that's for long range shooting. Not hunting. I would go with 300WM for hunting. If I'm staying in 30 cal.

The swedes hunt with 6.5x55. They take moose with it. Same as 260 rem with lil recoil. But longer cartridge. I shot the 6.5x55 n loved it. I just decided to rebarrel to 260 rem to eliminate another cartridge.

I'm also huge Savage guy. Most accurate rifle out of the box
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Re: The Truth about 6.5 Ammo

Postby hopkins on Fri Aug 18, 2017 3:54 pm

I know that it doesn't have the legs of the Creedmore, but I have a type 38 Arisaka 6.5 x 50 it was made in the early 30's and shoots like a dream with very little recoil. After buying mine at an auction, I didn't even know the caliber, but mechanically it was in beautiful condition with a pristine bore I paid $55.00 for it. At first I had a hard time finding ammo, but finally ran into a guy that had 200 rounds he just wanted to get rid of. Real easy to reload and with spritzer rather than the original round nose the ballistics are pretty good. I wish I had six more just like it.
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The Truth about 6.5 Ammo

Postby acs75 on Fri Aug 18, 2017 4:34 pm

My next build will be 6.5x47 lapua. Extremely easy to reload. That is saying something when reloading for 260 rem. Plus it has about 4000 rounds in a barrel
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Re: The Truth about 6.5 Ammo

Postby Ghost on Fri Aug 18, 2017 5:19 pm

acs75 wrote:My next build will be 6.5x47 lapua. Extremely easy to reload. That is saying something when reloading for 260 rem. Plus it has about 4000 rounds in a barrel

That's a benefit of the Grendel $0.80/rnd factory match/hunting ammo and $0.23/rnd factory plinking ammo.
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The Truth about 6.5 Ammo

Postby acs75 on Fri Aug 18, 2017 5:36 pm

Ghost wrote:
acs75 wrote:My next build will be 6.5x47 lapua. Extremely easy to reload. That is saying something when reloading for 260 rem. Plus it has about 4000 rounds in a barrel

That's a benefit of the Grendel $0.80/rnd factory match/hunting ammo and $0.23/rnd factory plinking ammo.


Yeah. I just don't get the grendal. To me the only benefit is it's true AR-15 platform. Bolt action why not go with something with lil more case capacity.
I'm not a fan of under powder cartridge taking deer size animals. That goes with 300 blackout also. These to me are not hunting cartridges. I believe in one shot one kill. Kill instantly. To many hunters out there can't shoot in the first place. Now you put some like a grendal in their hands. I hate seeing animals suffer!

Now if you're talking about target shooting different story. But still not sure I get it.

I own 300 blackout. But it's purpose is for what it was designed for close quarter combat.

I'm heavily invested in 6.5. For me I guess adding grendal isn't a horrible option. But I listed other more capable cartridges.

In my humble opinion.
Last edited by acs75 on Fri Aug 18, 2017 11:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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The Truth about 6.5 Ammo

Postby acs75 on Fri Aug 18, 2017 5:53 pm

I also I don't think hunters need to worry cost per round. Considering the $30 box of ammo that shoot maybe 5 rounds to zero their rifle. Then 5 they spray all over the woods to possibly hit that deer they think they seen. It won't break them. Lucky for them they have 10 rounds for next year.
Before hunters get their panties in a bunch. They shoot 5 rounds to zero from a supported bench position. Which helps them zero when it comes to the position they will shoot from when shooting a "deer"

lol I digress lol
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Re: The Truth about 6.5 Ammo

Postby Ghost on Fri Aug 18, 2017 8:42 pm

acs75 wrote:
Ghost wrote:
acs75 wrote:My next build will be 6.5x47 lapua. Extremely easy to reload. That is saying something when reloading for 260 rem. Plus it has about 4000 rounds in a barrel

That's a benefit of the Grendel $0.80/rnd factory match/hunting ammo and $0.23/rnd factory plinking ammo.


Yeah. I just don't get the grendal. To me the only benefit is it's true AR-15 platform. Bolt action why not go with something with lil more case capacity.
I'm not a fan of under powder cartridge taking deer size animals. That goes with 300 blackout also. These to me are not hunting cartridges. I believe in one shot one kill. Kill instantly. To many hunters out there can't shoot in the first place. Now you put some like a grendal in their hands. I hate seeing animals suffer!

Now if you're talking about target shooting different story. But still not sure I get it.

I own 300 blackout. But it's purpose is for what it was designed for close quarter combat.

I'm heavily invested in 6.5. For me I guess adding grendal isn't a horrible option. But I listed other more capable cartridges.

I my humble opinion.

I've never heard of the Grendel being underpowered? Please provide some backup. It has more energy at 400 yards than a 30-30 does at 200. Seems you think bigger is better and can compensate for ******* shooting, maybe we should only hunt with .338 lapua or .50 BMG?

It's lighter weight, less recoil and not a barrel burner. Still can reach out and touch something if needed.

What do you mean "can't shoot" and wouldn't put a Grendel in their hands? Most people will shoot a Grendel better than any of the ar10 calibers. When is the last time you put 80 rounds through one in an hour and a half? I did two weeks ago.

I believe I'm up to 200 rounds so far in the last month with mine.

Please feel free to prove me wrong but I don't think much of what you said is true. It seems many here haven't shot or even have experience with a Grendel.
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The Truth about 6.5 Ammo

Postby acs75 on Fri Aug 18, 2017 11:13 pm

Ghost
Read the last line of my statement that you quoted me. "In my humble opinion". That's all it is. I didn't throw out any facts. It's just how I feel. I'm sure I may feel differently if I did my research on the grendal.
But Not when it comes to hunting. I never said 338 or 50. I said 300WM. With the 300WM you have all the energy you need to humanly kill a deer. When you factor in the chances of that bullet hitting a branch going through heavily wooded hunting zone knocking it off coarse n or reducing the available energy at the end of the shot. Along with the fact that they are shooting from a semi supported position hanging out of a tree.
The 300WM will help with all those factors when they uneducatedly (not a word but I'm going with it) pull the trigger. Again I don't want to see an animal suffer because of poor decision making and marksmanship.
You are Not the normal hunter if that's your round count. Most hunters pull the trigger less then 20 times each year.
200 hundred rounds in a month. I can do that a week. I shoot minimum once a week average twice a week. I shoot every week. I shoot from multiple position n scenarios.
But this shouldn't be a pissing contest. That wasn't the question ask by op. I'm responsible for taking lil off line.
I listed the cartridges that I thought would be more suitable. Again just my opinion. Not trying to win an argument. Couldn't care less about what guys own n shoot.
But my hats off to you. You are one of the few hunters/gun owners honing their skills. We would have less gun issues if more people would take time to learn to shoot. Instead of just owning a gun.
You being so passionate about the grendal and its ability to achieve the requirements that I look for in a cartridge makes me rethink owning one. NOT for hunting.
I really want an 6.5 in semi auto.
Maybe I build grendal for one of my AR-15's builds I have coming up. Like I said I am Heavily Invested in 6.5.

I stand by what I said n how I feel about hunters and the cartridges used for hunting.

Just because you can doesn't mean you should
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Re: The Truth about 6.5 Ammo

Postby Erud on Sat Aug 19, 2017 5:38 am

That's kind of an extreme attitude towards hunters, were you abused by one as a child or something? In an earlier post you mention the .308 having too much recoil, but then recommend a .300wm to a hunter who is only going to pull the trigger 20 times per year. That seems like a recipe for bad marksmanship. Extremely high-recoiling cartridges definitely do not make casual shooters better shots.
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