Remington Model 11-Bismuth?

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Remington Model 11-Bismuth?

Postby Jack's My dog on Thu Nov 22, 2018 7:39 pm

Good evening All,

I received my Grandfather's Remington Model 11, 12 ga. with a fixed full choke. I think it is plausible that the gun was manufactured in the late 20's based on my initial research. I would like to be able to get into the field with it every once and a awhile. I know steel and and 3" shells are a no go. I am thinking I can run bismuth for a non-toxic load through the gun, looking to confirm this and identify any other possible limitations. If any one has any information or can point me in the direction of some useful resources I would appreciate it.

Happy Thanksgiving!
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Re: Remington Model 11-Bismuth?

Postby 870TC on Thu Nov 22, 2018 10:00 pm

bismuth is fine for non tox load and old full choke. check spring and rings under forend, they are basically like an A-5 browning and have a set up for heavy loads and one for lighter loads depending on where the rings are positioned. keep some very light grease on that spring. Also make sure the forend cap is tight, if it loosens while shooting you will crack the forend.
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Re: Remington Model 11-Bismuth?

Postby crbutler on Fri Nov 23, 2018 7:22 pm

Yes you can run bismuth through anything you can shoot lead through.
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Re: Remington Model 11-Bismuth?

Postby crbutler on Fri Nov 23, 2018 10:51 pm

I guess I should clarify a bit.

The bismuth pellets are actually a bit softer than lead- they are also a bit more brittle. Tin is added to the pellet alloy to help with that and is a big part of why the density is as low as it is.

Shooting bismuth shot in a fiber wadded shell (so called eco loads) works. It tends to leave some metal fouling in the bore, but is harmless to the gun. I had some issues with pellet fractures (found some split or broken pellets in game birds) but it still works well.

If you want to handload, you can use steel type wads, buffer, and modest velocities and it kills as well as lead.

If you are looking for factory ammo, the best local source is Ballistic Products, although anyone can order the stuff. Kent makes some loads for “classic doubles” which would be the safest for a heirloom gun. Frankly, a post smokeless repeater should be able to handle any standard lead level loading of bismuth shells. If it was a turn of the twentieth century Parker or something Damascus I would stick with the lighter classic doubles loading once it was proven safe by a gunsmith.

Bismuth other than its weights and density being different, is essentially loaded the same as lead, so handload it it is a non issue if you can load lead shells. Ballistic Products is big in this as well, but Precision Reloading is a player as well, and as they are SD based, you might save on sales tax. Rotometals also sells pellets and is less expensive, but they are a metal company and have no customer support for reloading.

My standard load for waterfowl is a 3.5” shell loaded with 1.5 oz of bismuth #4. It could easily be placed in a 3” shell, but the 3.5 discourages shell pilferers and borrowers.

You will have to look to get a 1.25oz 2.75” load (equivalent to the old duck and pheasant shells) but 1.125 oz is easily done. If shooting in an area where I want to avoid wad litter, I shoot a 1.125 oz paper hulled fiber wad shell that is not as capable as the 3.5 shell, but works a heck of a lot better than steel without making nearly as much report.

Get the Hodgdon shotshell manual and you can find some reasonable bismuth loads. Some of the newer manuals have a bismuth section. These tend to be using lead shot wads without buffer, but work reasonably well.
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Re: Remington Model 11-Bismuth?

Postby Jack's My dog on Sat Nov 24, 2018 9:59 am

Thanks Fellas. I think I am going to order up some of the Kent for now, as Midway has free shipping, but I will make a note of the ballistic products. I know now I made an error in the dating of the gun. Mine does not have the "in the trigger guard" safety, so I know think I can safely say it is newer than 1927. I shot my first pheasant with this gun when I was out with my Grandfather and Dad just about 25 years ago over my Grandfather's Brittany/spring mix.

The butt pad is dry and cracked, and I think I am going to have it replaced. My basic understanding is the model 11's have limited colletor's value, so I think it is worth having some work done to confirm/make it it a shooter.

I think I already know the answer, any recommendations for who to take it to in the twin cities metro? Or do I just make the drive to Morristown?
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Re: Remington Model 11-Bismuth?

Postby crbutler on Sat Nov 24, 2018 2:24 pm

Jim Kobe in Bloomington does a lot of stock work, and is pretty quick turn around.

Him and Ahlmans pretty much do all my work if it isn’t factory.
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