Open Sights Question

[GregM]

Time for my daily dumb question: Why do big game guns always come with open sights?

Is a .45-70 Govt or a .458 Lott bullet so destructive that pinpoint accuracy just isn't all that important? Or are you so close to that charging elephant that a scope is unnecessary?

That's three dumb questions, I know. I allow myself up to four a day.

[JoeH]

Big Game and Dangerous Game are different.

From what I've read, the thrill of hunting Dangerous Game is in the close-range encounter. Regardless of bullet trajectory, you'll want open sights at close range especially when the animal may be closing in on you!

For Big Game, it's more of a trajectory issue. A 300-500 grain bullet has a lot of drop.

[Ironbear]

Time for my daily dumb question: Why do big game guns always come with open sights?

Is a .45-70 Govt or a .458 Lott bullet so destructive that pinpoint accuracy just isn't all that important? Or are you so close to that charging elephant that a scope is unnecessary?

My understanding is that:
° Iron sights are reliable.
° Iron sights are weather resistance (no fogging or streaking).
° Iron sights are "good enough" for the ranges involved.
° There is a tendency to be unable to find the target, in the scope, at close ranges (presumably white-knuckle ones).

To quote Jeff Cooper, "The finest shot I ever saw delivered was placed by the late Kerry Finn of the Rhodesian Park Service, almost exactly between the eyes of a charging buffalo at a range of about 30 steps."

[Rem700]

Finding the target it in the scope isnt as much the problem as which end of the target are you looking at.

[Rip Van Winkle]

To expand on what Ironbear said.
Iron sights are faster to aquire on your target and are game deadly accurate out to around 100 yards.

[1911fan]

It actually is more historical than that. Early telescopic sights were very fragile, and usually had very small fields of view. Also for some period of time, the preferred weapon was a double barreled rifle shooting cigar sized cartridges. Finding a scope that would hold up, allow you to manipulate the weapon, had some way of being mounted on the weapon, AND had a field of view large enough to allow you to find you target within the time it takes to say "Oh Schit!" was pretty much impossible.

As scopes got better, bolt actions came into regular use and more modern sized cartridges were used, the tradition of no glass sights remained. "Express sights" with a couple of fixed range sight leaves were common for a while on dangerous game guns but they restrict you to one load, all the time. The .375 H&H was probably the round that allowed glass sights to be accepted as it was nearly as flat shooting as a 30-06, had sufficient power to be used against anything but elephants in all of africa, and allowed shooting at ranges long enough to warrant glass. This also brought up the use of the good claw mount scope ring, where you could shoot impala with the glass, then flip a lever and drop the scope into your pocket for walking in the thorns looking for a big bull buffalo.

(Some Nations had instituted no sub 40 caliber elephant guns after a few nimrods shooting lighter soft points into elephants and getting the breath stomped out of them, which is bad for tourism)

I once owned a square bridge Mauser from Brno that had a large (maybe 3/16") peep sight welded to the rear bridge, along with a 1/8 " ivory bead front sight. I do not know where it came from but I always figured who ever had used it had faced some big toothy thing and decided that he had had his sights move for the last time. It was Chambered in 9.3 x 62. or about a 366-06. That rifle is living in Alaska now, a place where a rifle like that belongs.

[selurcspi]

A real rifleman can use iron sights as well and sometimes better that a scope.

Fer Instance.....

The home of the NRA (The original, not the johnny come lately) Bisley Camp has multiple Rifle shoots each year. The Biggie, The Queen's Prize, is shot at 12' by 10' Targets with a 2' Bull and 1' Xring. The distances are 800, 1000, 1200 yards the rifle has to be a No1 or No4 pattern rifle with open sights and the 303 cartridge. About every other year the winner knocks down a possible (60 shots in a 2' circle) and about every five or six years there is a possible X. That is 60 shots in a 12" circle twenty from each of the 800, 1000, 1200 distances with iron sights.

Dr Mann tells us that if the barrel is good enough, held still enough and the wind remains the same, shots will fall to the same place throughout the trajectory.

The rest is the rifleman.

It chokes me to say it, but that is why the marines are so effective, they train riflemen.

[hammAR]

It chokes me to say it, but that is why the marines are so effective, they train riflemen.

No comment.......

[ttousi]

Slurpee you've gone soft in the head................get some rest and try again

[GregM]

This is good news. There's a certain 30-06 with open sights that I've been lusting after. It seemed to me that a rifle with that kind of range should have a scope, but I also felt that it would look better without one. So I think I'll get the gun and skip the scope.

[selurcspi]

It chokes me to say it, but that is why the marines are so effective, they train riflemen.

No comment.......

Though of course, hammAR is so blind, he can't see iron sights, as was proven on Saturday!

[hammAR]

It chokes me to say it, but that is why the marines are so effective, they train riflemen.

No comment.......

Though of course, hammAR is so blind, he can't see iron sights, as was proven on Saturday!

Operative word "riflemen", so anytime that you want to take me on with long guns..........
Besides, I showed up, shot the COF, didn't shoot anyone, and stayed for the whole event......
and with "point shooting" I still came out in the middle of a pack of pretty good shooters.............
It would have been better IF I didn't have to support the Army and Navy with re-supply.............
then they both beat me with my own bullets...............

[jac714]

Operative word "riflemen", so anytime that you want to take me on with long guns..........
Besides, I showed up, shot the COF, didn't shoot anyone, and stayed for the whole event......
and with "point shooting" I still came out in the middle of a pack of pretty good shooters.............
It would have been better IF I didn't have to support the Army and Navy with re-supply.............
then they both beat me with my own bullets...............

I hate to say it, but it was a whole lot of fun to do so with your ammo.

As to your invite to try it with rifles, what are you some kind of nut???? There is no way on earth I am taking on a Marine with a rifle. I can't see that far and really can't shoot a rifle out past about 300 meters, (150 over iron sights). Thats why I am a bubble head, nothing can be seen past about 30 ft.

[hammAR]

I hate to say it, but it was a whole lot of fun to do so with your ammo.

I know...................
I understand that you and gunnerbmg are trying to talk Slurrpie into inviting me again,
just this time I must bring ammo for everyone.........

.

[ttousi]

I hate to say it, but it was a whole lot of fun to do so with your ammo.

I know...................
I understand that you and gunnerbmg are trying to talk Slurrpie into inviting me again,
just this time I must bring ammo for everyone.........

.

free ammo? from hammAR ?
might have to take time off work for that