1911 in 9mm what to get?

[Hobotorium]

...I am looking for opinions on a 1911 in 9mm. Let me hear everything pros, cons, which ones to look into and which I should stay away from. This is all still new to me so any help you folks can give would be great.

Why do you want a 1911 in 9mm? Is it just because you want metal, or would something like a browning hi-power be alright too?

I want to collect/shoot all kinds of guns. Yes I want my next pistol to be metal. My reason for 1911 is the platform has been around for 100 years and I know I will own one at some point so I figured why not have it be my next gun.
The BHP is not a gun I thought about but I am going to. Heck maybe I should wait on a 1911 untill I want a 45. As for Browning as a company. When my Buck Mark had major leading issues, Browning to care of me. So I would own another Browning product in a heart beat. Thanks for the advice on the BHP.

Try tracking down an Argentine HP if you just want a shooter. They are good quality and made on the same FN machinery as the originals. Most are priced around $300 or less.

[gyrfalcon]

The BHP is not a gun I thought about but I am going to. Heck maybe I should wait on a 1911 untill I want a 45. As for Browning as a company. When my Buck Mark had major leading issues, Browning to care of me. So I would own another Browning product in a heart beat. Thanks for the advice on the BHP.

Oh don't mistake the Browning Hi-Power as a Browning Arms product. The Browning Hi-Power is made by Fabrique Nationale and a number of other companies off of one of John Browning's designs, sort of like the 1911 he also designed Unfortunately the Browning HP is probably out of your price range. (See post above)

[tacticalninja32]

EMP-9mm

[FJ540]

I got the mrs a springer light weight 9mm ultra-compact (3.5" barrel) 1911 and that's a real sweet shooting gun.

[TH3180]

The BHP is not a gun I thought about but I am going to. Heck maybe I should wait on a 1911 untill I want a 45. As for Browning as a company. When my Buck Mark had major leading issues, Browning to care of me. So I would own another Browning product in a heart beat. Thanks for the advice on the BHP.

Oh don't mistake the Browning Hi-Power as a Browning Arms product. The Browning Hi-Power is made by Fabrique Nationale and a number of other companies off of one of John Browning's designs, sort of like the 1911 he also designed Unfortunately the Browning HP is probably out of your price range. (See post above)

The one you posted the picture of is made by Browning isn't it?
I have so much to learn.

[gyrfalcon]

The one you posted the picture of is made by Browning isn't it?
I have so much to learn.

Woops ignore me... Browning Arms actually sells them, but they're made by FN in Belgium I believe. For some stupid reason I thought Browning didn't sell them anymore.

http://www.browning.com/products/catalo ... i-firearms

This should explain it better than me: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hi_power

[scotts87iroc]

I have the Kimber Ultra CDP II in .45. I love the gun and it's very smooth and accurate for a 3" gun. Last year they came out with it in 9mm. I'd like to get one only because of the ammo cost. Again, for a small gun, I love my Kimber!

[Seismic Sam]

The REAL Browning H-P's have always been made by the Fabrique Nationale in Belgium. During WWII the Hi-Power was made by lots of different countries, with varying degrees of quality, or lack thereof.

And to throw a completely different twist on a 9mm 1911, which has been billed as the ultimate solution for a .355" bore 1911, think about getting a 1911 in 38 Super and running 9x23 Winchester ammo in it. That case is essentially a .223 case cut down and reamed, but still runs small rifles primers because the round generates 52,000 PSI and with 125 grain JHP's fully equals 357 magnum ballistics. Recoil is still quite managable, accuracy is superb, the kick-ass factor is maxed out.

[Holland&Holland]

The REAL Browning H-P's have always been made by the Fabrique Nationale in Belgium. During WWII the Hi-Power was made by lots of different countries, with varying degrees of quality, or lack thereof.

And to throw a completely different twist on a 9mm 1911, which has been billed as the ultimate solution for a .355" bore 1911, think about getting a 1911 in 38 Super and running 9x23 Winchester ammo in it. That case is essentially a .223 case cut down and reamed, but still runs small rifles primers because the round generates 52,000 PSI and with 125 grain JHP's fully equals 357 magnum ballistics. Recoil is still quite managable, accuracy is superb, the kick-ass factor is maxed out.

Which .38 Super 1911 (make model) would you reccomend if one was going to shoot both .38 SA and 9x23?

[Seismic Sam]

Sadly, there are only a few real 9x23 1911's out there, and they are pricey and rare.

My 38 Super is an EAA Match which is set up to be an IDPA gun, which means it's a recent manufacture (last three years) and more or less designed to make major power factor, which the 9x23 does easily. It's also a 17+1 capacity gun that can throw a 125 grain GD at 1450, which makes it an 18 shot 357 Magnum. All this for under $500!!

If you were going to get a 1911, you would want it to be ALSO a recent manufacture, to avoid a couple of problems. The 38 Super was originally a semi-rimmed cartridge, and it headspaced on this teeny little rim, and it really wouldn't reliably position the round, which led to pretty crappy accuracy and other issues, so the 1911 38 Super languished for decades as an ugly cousin. Then in the 80's the IDPA people started looking hard at it to make major power factor, and they started to make rimless 38 Super brass (9mm Largo, 38 Supercomp, 9x23 Supercomp, and 9x23 Winchester brass) At the same time, the chamber dimensions shifted slightly to go along with the rinless brass, which is why you do not want and "old" 38 Super 1911.

This unfortunately brings up the issue of price, and 38 Super 1911's are not cheap. Al's gunshop has a good selection of 38 Supers, but they are all over $1000 and more or less bar-b-que guns. The best thing I can think of is to hang out on gunbroker.com and see what you can find as far as a 38 Super 1911 of ANY vintage, and then get a new Bar-Sto 9x23 barrel for it, and you should be good to go.

Also note: DO NOT USE 9mm LARGO BRASS FOR ANY HOT LOADS!!! The 9mm Largo case is an old design that went with a not very strong pistol, so it's not designed for high pressure loads.

Secondly, despite some websites like Natchez and Graf and Sons listing 9x23 Supercomp brass as the same thing as 9x23 Winchester, it is NOT!!! I weighed 10 pieces of 9x23 Supercomp and came out with a weight of 41.8 grams, while 10 pieces of 9x23 Winchester came out at 50.9 grams, which means the real 9x23 Win brass has almost 25% more metal in it.

Lastly, 9x23 Winchester brass is pricey and hard to find, while 9x23 WWB loaded ammo is actually quite reasonable and Wolf's Den stocks it all the time. Before Obamainflation, you could get loaded 9x23 loaded ammo for about $3 more than the price of the brass. (!) VV3N37 powder is THE choice for hot 9x23 loads.

[Holland&Holland]

Sadly, there are only a few real 9x23 1911's out there, and they are pricey and rare.

My 38 Super is an EAA Match which is set up to be an IDPA gun, which means it's a recent manufacture (last three years) and more or less designed to make major power factor, which the 9x23 does easily. It's also a 17+1 capacity gun that can throw a 125 grain GD at 1450, which makes it an 18 shot 357 Magnum. All this for under $500!!

If you were going to get a 1911, you would want it to be ALSO a recent manufacture, to avoid a couple of problems. The 38 Super was originally a semi-rimmed cartridge, and it headspaced on this teeny little rim, and it really wouldn't reliably position the round, which led to pretty crappy accuracy and other issues, so the 1911 38 Super languished for decades as an ugly cousin. Then in the 80's the IDPA people started looking hard at it to make major power factor, and they started to make rimless 38 Super brass (9mm Largo, 38 Supercomp, 9x23 Supercomp, and 9x23 Winchester brass) At the same time, the chamber dimensions shifted slightly to go along with the rinless brass, which is why you do not want and "old" 38 Super 1911.

This unfortunately brings up the issue of price, and 38 Super 1911's are not cheap. Al's gunshop has a good selection of 38 Supers, but they are all over $1000 and more or less bar-b-que guns. The best thing I can think of is to hang out on gunbroker.com and see what you can find as far as a 38 Super 1911 of ANY vintage, and then get a new Bar-Sto 9x23 barrel for it, and you should be good to go.

Also note: DO NOT USE 9mm LARGO BRASS FOR ANY HOT LOADS!!! The 9mm Largo case is an old design that went with a not very strong pistol, so it's not designed for high pressure loads.

Secondly, despite some websites like Natchez and Graf and Sons listing 9x23 Supercomp brass as the same thing as 9x23 Winchester, it is NOT!!! I weighed 10 pieces of 9x23 Supercomp and came out with a weight of 41.8 grams, while 10 pieces of 9x23 Winchester came out at 50.9 grams, which means the real 9x23 Win brass has almost 25% more metal in it.

Lastly, 9x23 Winchester brass is pricey and hard to find, while 9x23 WWB loaded ammo is actually quite reasonable and Wolf's Den stocks it all the time. Before Obamainflation, you could get loaded 9x23 loaded ammo for about $3 more than the price of the brass. (!) VV3N37 powder is THE choice for hot 9x23 loads.

Kimber currently catologs their Target II (out of their Custom II line) in a standard single stack configuration .38 super with a stainless steel frame and slide. Thoughts?

My thinking has been, it is steel framed which is good. Current manufature good. Will the tolerances be too tight for the 9x23? I have read that the guns that feed the 9x23 well tend to have a slightly looser chamber?

[rugersol]

I don't mean to pee on Sam's parade, here ... but if it were me (and fer the last couple years, it was!) ... I'd stick with 9x19.

I've fitted 9mm bbl's into two .38 Colts I've got. Why? 'Cause I can get purdy nice fired brass for 'bout $0.04.

Then again, I like to shoot ... a LOT!

Admittedly, I ain't done much as far as trying to see how hot I could go. I've loaded 124gr JHP at 'bout 1,150fps with very little effort. In a bit of research, it seems 1,400fps 124gr JHP loaded to the 1.300 OAL (standard 9mm is closer to 1.100) in a 1911/2011-style pistol is not nearly unheard of. This ... http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showforum=72 ... seems to be a good resource, on the subject.

Long story, short ...

I'd keep two sets of brass (one new, unfired) and two recoil springs (one light, one heavy).

This way, if ya want, ya can load the unfired brass hot ... install the heavier recoil spring ... and while ya might not necessarily duplicate a .357 Coonan, ya'll probly come purdy close.

And, when ya don't want, ya can load any brass to typical 9x19 performance, install the lighter spring, and plink 'til yer hand goes numb.

... all with one gun ... one bbl ... and one set of mags.

... and yer shootin' some of the cheapest brass and bullets money can buy.

Either way, yer not gonna shoot much .38 Super 'er 9x23 ... fer long ... 'less ya reload it ... so whether yer reloading .38 Super, 9x23, or 9x19, yer reloading.

That said ... if ya really don't wanna reload, the gun'll shoot factory 9mm, jest fine.

[VikesFan1]

+1 on the BHP recommendation. Sounds like it's everything you're looking for. Something else to consider if you're comparing the two, does anyone make a 9mm double-stack in 1911?

[Holland&Holland]

I don't mean to pee on Sam's parade, here ... but if it were me (and fer the last couple years, it was!) ... I'd stick with 9x19.

I've fitted 9mm bbl's into two .38 Colts I've got. Why? 'Cause I can get purdy nice fired brass for 'bout $0.04.

Then again, I like to shoot ... a LOT!

Admittedly, I ain't done much as far as trying to see how hot I could go. I've loaded 124gr JHP at 'bout 1,150fps with very little effort. In a bit of research, it seems 1,400fps 124gr JHP loaded to the 1.300 OAL (standard 9mm is closer to 1.100) in a 1911/2011-style pistol is not nearly unheard of. This ... http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showforum=72 ... seems to be a good resource, on the subject.

Long story, short ...

I'd keep two sets of brass (one new, unfired) and two recoil springs (one light, one heavy).

This way, if ya want, ya can load the unfired brass hot ... install the heavier recoil spring ... and while ya might not necessarily duplicate a .357 Coonan, ya'll probly come purdy close.

And, when ya don't want, ya can load any brass to typical 9x19 performance, install the lighter spring, and plink 'til yer hand goes numb.

... all with one gun ... one bbl ... and one set of mags.

... and yer shootin' some of the cheapest brass and bullets money can buy.

Either way, yer not gonna shoot much .38 Super 'er 9x23 ... fer long ... 'less ya reload it ... so whether yer reloading .38 Super, 9x23, or 9x19, yer reloading.

That said ... if ya really don't wanna reload, the gun'll shoot factory 9mm, jest fine.

Already have a 9 and planning on a 2nd. Nothing wrong with good proven performance that can be purchased just about anywhere I agree. That said, I have an adicition that must be fed and soon on that list will be a .38 super. Nothing short of a full fledged intervention would disuade that (and not certain that would even be effective). That said, would love to be able to shoot 9x23 as well. Kind of like the .357 mag revolver version of the semi-auto. .38 super for nice powerful loads that would work for both shooting and self defense in its own right and just when you want to step it up 9x23. Sweet! I know, hard to get, have to load, hard on the gun probably, why? Just because it exists. Sort of like the 250 Hummdinger...

[RAGGED]

Just got a new CDNN and they have Taurus 1911's in 38super for $399 (blue steel) & $449 (Stainless) Novaks, 5", seems like a pretty good deal if you ask me.