The 9 versus 40 or 45

[1911fan]

Massive does not equal extreme power. The round is only loaded to about 14K PSI and that was intentional as on a very hot day in africa it might push 20k PSI as the powder was heat sensitive. It was far less powerful than Govt 45-70 loads and shot a smaller hard cast lead bullet. It penetrated like mad but powerwise it was far less than alot of modern rounds.

[gyrfalcon]

Massive does not equal extreme power. The round is only loaded to about 14K PSI and that was intentional as on a very hot day in africa it might push 20k PSI as the powder was heat sensitive. It was far less powerful than Govt 45-70 loads and shot a smaller hard cast lead bullet. It penetrated like mad but powerwise it was far less than alot of modern rounds.

??? Yeah I understand it's not .50BMG or as powerful as modern .45-70 loads, but it's still a pretty massive and deadly round:

.577/450 Martini-Henry
400 gr (26 g) lead 1,450 ft/s (440 m/s) 1,868 ft·lbf (2,533 J)
480 gr (31 g) lead 1,350 ft/s (410 m/s) 1,943 ft·lbf (2,634 J)

.45-70 (Trapdoor):
300 (Trapdoor) Lead PB 1,597 ft/s (487 m/s) 1,699 ft·lbf (2,304 J)
405 (Trapdoor) Lead FN 1,394 ft/s (425 m/s) 1,748 ft·lbf (2,370 J)

.30-06:
150 gr (9.7 g) Nosler Ballistic Tip 2,910 ft/s (890 m/s) 2,820 ft·lbf (3,820 J)
165 gr (10.7 g) BTSP 2,800 ft/s (850 m/s) 2,872 ft·lbf (3,894 J)

.223:
55 gr (3.6 g) Nosler ballistic tip 3,240 ft/s (990 m/s) 1,282 ft·lbf (1,738 J)
60 gr (3.9 g) Nosler partition 3,160 ft/s (960 m/s) 1,330 ft·lbf (1,800 J)
69 gr (4.5 g) BTHP 2,950 ft/s (900 m/s) 1,333 ft·lbf

[Holland&Holland]

Anyone make an IWB holster for a Martini Henry? PM me I need to borrow one for my trip into Zulu land.

[gyrfalcon]

Anyone make an IWB holster for a Martini Henry? PM me I need to borrow one for my trip into Zulu land.

Shhh.. you might give someone an idea!

[mnglocker]

Massive does not equal extreme power. The round is only loaded to about 14K PSI and that was intentional as on a very hot day in africa it might push 20k PSI as the powder was heat sensitive. It was far less powerful than Govt 45-70 loads and shot a smaller hard cast lead bullet. It penetrated like mad but powerwise it was far less than alot of modern rounds.

??? Yeah I understand it's not .50BMG or as powerful as modern .45-70 loads, but it's still a pretty massive and deadly round:

.577/450 Martini-Henry
400 gr (26 g) lead 1,450 ft/s (440 m/s) 1,868 ft·lbf (2,533 J)
480 gr (31 g) lead 1,350 ft/s (410 m/s) 1,943 ft·lbf (2,634 J)

.45-70 (Trapdoor):
300 (Trapdoor) Lead PB 1,597 ft/s (487 m/s) 1,699 ft·lbf (2,304 J)
405 (Trapdoor) Lead FN 1,394 ft/s (425 m/s) 1,748 ft·lbf (2,370 J)

.30-06:
150 gr (9.7 g) Nosler Ballistic Tip 2,910 ft/s (890 m/s) 2,820 ft·lbf (3,820 J)
165 gr (10.7 g) BTSP 2,800 ft/s (850 m/s) 2,872 ft·lbf (3,894 J)

.223:
55 gr (3.6 g) Nosler ballistic tip 3,240 ft/s (990 m/s) 1,282 ft·lbf (1,738 J)
60 gr (3.9 g) Nosler partition 3,160 ft/s (960 m/s) 1,330 ft·lbf (1,800 J)
69 gr (4.5 g) BTHP 2,950 ft/s (900 m/s) 1,333 ft·lbf

Ft.lbs don't mean sheet. Taylor KO is what counts.

[Pinnacle]

None of this means anything unless you can actually - HIT THE TARGET.

Misses dont count, TKO does not count, Ft/Lbs. do not count, nothing matters more than hitting the target. If you are looking for a one shot solution, there isn't one.

Most people cant shoot all that well, and shooting a hard recoiling pistol for self defense - doesn't help.

[Dave Pendleton]

Most people cant shoot all that well, and shooting a hard recoiling pistol for self defense - doesn't help.

Which is why I switched.

[hammAR]

.45 all the way.............
and if it hurts you to shoot it, just imagine how the perp you hit feels....................

[Dave Pendleton]

It doesn't hurt, I just don't shoot it all that well.

[hammAR]

Practice, and get with someone that does and have them work with you...........then practice more until you master it.....

[tazdevil]

Next thing you know, you guys are going to argue that one type of round is faster than the other, so if someone has that round, their bullet can reach the other shooter faster than the other bullet can reach................................

[Heffay]

Next thing you know, you guys are going to argue that one type of round is faster than the other, so if someone has that round, their bullet can reach the other shooter faster than the other bullet can reach................................

Pfft, that problem is easy to solve. You just shoot their bullets out of the air as they come towards you. The 9mm wins again, since you'll end up with more bullets than they have!

[hammAR]

Next thing you know, you guys are going to argue that one type of round is faster than the other, so if someone has that round, their bullet can reach the other shooter faster than the other bullet can reach................................

Pfft, that problem is easy to solve. You just shoot their bullets out of the air as they come towards you. The 9mm wins again, since you'll end up with more bullets than they have!

This sounds like a box o'truth challenge.....................

[Pinnacle]

Looking at this debate objectively, the ancient caliber debate, there is a lot of merit to the discussion, but not a lot of real value.

Does a 45 give you a relative advantage in a gunfight? Only if you can shoot it as well as you can any other caliber. Does a 9mm place you at a disadvantage? Only if you cant shoot it well.

Objectively, I think that this debate can be settled by making the statement "You have to be able to hit your target."

Is any gun better than any other? I dont really think so

Rules for Handguns:
1. a handgun has to be reliable and in good repair.
2. YOU HAVE TO KNOW HOW TO OPERATE IT
3. You must know the basics of pistol marksmanship
4. you must be able to handle the gun safely.

[macphisto]

I shoot a .45 VERY WELL and can control the hell out of a 1911.

YUO = JELLUS!