Reliabilty

Discussion of handguns

Re: Reliabilty

Postby Scott Notaeh on Thu Jun 16, 2011 10:00 pm

Dave Pendleton wrote:
hammAR wrote:
Dave Pendleton wrote:Anyone want to put their 1911 up against my G37 at OGC some weekend?

I'll run the damned thing over with my truck, are you willing?


I would, and the hell with running them over with a truck...
we will flip a coin and the winner shoots first..
I shoot your Glock with my 1911......
you shoot my 1911 with your Glock.....
well see which one runs............ :mrgreen:


Okay then. Pick a date.


How did this end up? I need to know what to buy if I plan on blocking shots with my pistol like wonder woman's bracelets.
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Re: Reliabilty

Postby rukwikenuf on Thu Jun 16, 2011 10:05 pm

grousemaster wrote: -Don't pull the trigger until you want to shoot.


i have kids, and i refuse to own an automatic pistol without a safety. period. you won't get met to "join the darkside", as i also am not a fan of the grip angle. but thanks for the effort!
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Re: Reliabilty

Postby Evo on Thu Jun 16, 2011 10:17 pm

HammAR just to clarify your stance since you have yet to contribute pertinent information regarding reliability. Are you saying the 1911 is as reliable as say a Hk45 or 3rd gen glock 17? So you are saying you disagree with Larry Vickers?

It is totally cool to say that you prefer and shoot 1911s better. If you have spent along time with 1911 and prefer them, cool but just come out and say it instead of trying to say they are as reliable as the guns mentioned earlier.
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Re: Reliabilty

Postby grousemaster on Thu Jun 16, 2011 10:34 pm

rukwikenuf wrote:
grousemaster wrote: -Don't pull the trigger until you want to shoot.


i have kids, and i refuse to own an automatic pistol without a safety. period. you won't get met to "join the darkside", as i also am not a fan of the grip angle. but thanks for the effort!



if a manual safety is going to keep your kids from being injured by a firearm you may need to take a hard look at your safety practices. I would recommend keeping the firearms out of this children s reach unless they are operating the firearm under your close supervision. Only if you failed miserably at every gun safety rule would a manual safety save your butt.
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Re: Reliabilty

Postby jgalt on Thu Jun 16, 2011 11:21 pm

Evo wrote:Are you saying the 1911 is as reliable as say a Hk45 or 3rd gen glock 17?


You are comparing a platform to two specific models of firearm. I assume you believe the HK45 & G17 are examples of highly reliable handguns. Care to choose a particular model in the 1911 platform to compare against, or would you prefer to continue making nonsensical statements you believe make you sound intelligent?
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Re: Reliabilty

Postby gyrfalcon on Thu Jun 16, 2011 11:44 pm

jgalt wrote:You are comparing a platform to two specific models of firearm. I assume you believe the HK45 & G17 are examples of highly reliable handguns. Care to choose a particular model in the 1911 platform to compare against, or would you prefer to continue making nonsensical statements you believe make you sound intelligent?


The 1911 is a platform but it's also a gun in its plain jane military configuration... that being said I think the challenge is to pretty much all 1911s. Take you pick! Wilson, Springfield, Kimber, Colt, Taurus, etc, etc....
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Re: Reliabilty

Postby Gecko, Extra Crispy on Fri Jun 17, 2011 12:23 am

Evo wrote:HammAR just to clarify your stance since you have yet to contribute pertinent information regarding reliability. Are you saying the 1911 is as reliable as say a Hk45 or 3rd gen glock 17? So you are saying you disagree with Larry Vickers?

It is totally cool to say that you prefer and shoot 1911s better. If you have spent along time with 1911 and prefer them, cool but just come out and say it instead of trying to say they are as reliable as the guns mentioned earlier.



This is awesome.

Keep it going HammAR

Evo (phone named guy) you may want to find out who you are sparring with online before you get all "experts say this" on them

Hammar I thought that was an alligator on the boat...dog really!?

Did I mention this is fun to watch?
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Re: Reliabilty

Postby jgalt on Fri Jun 17, 2011 12:25 am

gyrfalcon wrote:
jgalt wrote:You are comparing a platform to two specific models of firearm. I assume you believe the HK45 & G17 are examples of highly reliable handguns. Care to choose a particular model in the 1911 platform to compare against, or would you prefer to continue making nonsensical statements you believe make you sound intelligent?


The 1911 is a platform but it's also a gun in its plain jane military configuration... that being said I think the challenge is to pretty much all 1911s. Take your pick! Wilson, Springfield, Kimber, Colt, Taurus, etc, etc....


You - or Evo, or anyone else knocking "the 1911" as opposed to a particular make & model - take your pick. I'm not the one comparing a specific model to a type...

I already stated my opinion back on page 2 or 3. I've had a Springfield "GI.45" 1911-A1 that was utterly reliable after about 1000 rounds - I'd definitely trust my life to it. I've also had a G19 that was utterly reliable from shot #1 that I would also trust my life with. After the break in of the Springfield, they were statistically equally reliable.

Being mechanical devices, it is silly to talk in generalities regarding "reliability" - with any firearm, the user is going to need to test it to determine whether or not it will work reliably for them. Statistics referring to all of a given model, or all of a given type, are meaningless when what you actually care about is the reliability of the gun in your hand.

Now, if the question is "which firearms manufacturer has the lowest probability of producing a lemon", that's a question that can be debated intelligently. Except of course for the fact that quality control invariably changes over time...
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Re: Reliabilty

Postby gyrfalcon on Fri Jun 17, 2011 1:01 am

jgalt wrote:...I already stated my opinion back on page 2 or 3. I've had a Springfield "GI.45" 1911-A1 that was utterly reliable after about 1000 rounds - I'd definitely trust my life to it. I've also had a G19 that was utterly reliable from shot #1 that I would also trust my life with. After the break in of the Springfield, they were statistically equally reliable...


A properly designed and maintained firearm should always be reliable in its operation. The issue you get down to is that what happens when a firearm is not properly maintained, abused, or otherwise neglected? If I took your Springfield "GI.45" 1911-A1 and a Glock 17 and put a stake on a beach somewhere and tied them off to it... Which one do you thing would be operational in a day? a week? a month? a year? What if each firearm was put in a dryer with a few bricks for a couple hours, days, or weeks?

I don't think anyone is attacking the 1911 for not being reliable... I think they're just pointing out it probably won't be as reliable when subject to abuse, neglect or adverse conditions when you compare it to firearms with newer designs and technologies.
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Re: Reliabilty

Postby 1911fan on Fri Jun 17, 2011 4:08 am

I have several Colt 1911's, all older, the newest about a 72 model.

I have never, REPEAT, NEVER had a malfunction that was gun related with any of them.

One Commander has had so many rounds thru it when I finally replaced the barrel it only had an inch and a bit of rifling still visible in it. I have had ammo issues. those are generally my fault, as I shoot the vast majority of reloads, but with factory ammo, I have never had a hang up in any of the Colt's. Not a one. Ever.

It is my opinion (not so lightly held) that the more you try to "fix" the gun, in the terms of more work done, the less reliable a 1911 becomes. Build it to original specs, feed it good ammo, and it will run.

Remember Larry Vickers makes his living getting people to spend money on fancy 1911's with lots of work on them. He has a vested interest in creating the impression that unless you pay him great sums of money, your 1911 will never work properly.



Lastly, regarding the adoption of the Beretta 92, it had nothing to do with NATO standardization and nothing to do with Beretta's costing less than SIG, (heck, Beretta was shown SIG's bid about 2 weeks for before they made their bid..... It was all about airbases in Italy and keeping Nukes on the Peninsula. We bought a crap load of guns, they let us keep nukes and airbases in Italy. Any other arguments are pipe dreams.
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Re: Reliabilty

Postby R.E.T. on Fri Jun 17, 2011 6:03 am

Gecko, Extra Crispy wrote:
Evo wrote:HammAR just to clarify your stance since you have yet to contribute pertinent information regarding reliability. Are you saying the 1911 is as reliable as say a Hk45 or 3rd gen glock 17? So you are saying you disagree with Larry Vickers?

It is totally cool to say that you prefer and shoot 1911s better. If you have spent along time with 1911 and prefer them, cool but just come out and say it instead of trying to say they are as reliable as the guns mentioned earlier.



This is awesome.

Keep it going HammAR

Evo (phone named guy) you may want to find out who you are sparring with online before you get all "experts say this" on them

Hammar I thought that was an alligator on the boat...dog really!


Did I mention this is fun to watch?


In your referencing Larry Vickers, how much time does he have on a two way firing range?
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Re: Reliabilty

Postby hammAR on Fri Jun 17, 2011 7:59 am

Gecko, Extra Crispy wrote:Hammar I thought that was an alligator on the boat...dog really!
Did I mention this is fun to watch?

It was a crock, dog killed it, decided to keep the dog.....
he likes the parrot too....
wants to mount it.....

R.E.T. wrote: In your referencing Larry Vickers, how much time does he have on a two way firing range?

LV has more than enough time on range......
cant speak for his impaired parrot..... :P
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Re: Reliabilty

Postby ex-LT on Fri Jun 17, 2011 8:08 am

grousemaster wrote:
rukwikenuf wrote:ok, i'm a little offended that so few people are willing to think out of the "1911 v Glock" box. have none of you shot a Sig? i'd take a P226 in 9mm over a Glock any day. then again, i don't like the safety (or complete lack thereof) on a Glock. it has nothing to do with the polymer frame, i own an FNP-40 too. it's simply that the Sig P226 is as competent as any other service pistol. hell, it was almost the US sidearm to replace the 1911! if the Beretta had been a little more expensive, i'd have carried a P226 in Iraq instead of a 92F.
the Beretta 92F (M9) is still a good gun, and i'd rather carry that than nothing, but that's the only Beretta i can say this about.

to recap: P226 in 9mm (mind you, this gun has a capacity of 15+1), with my USMC Ka-Bar on my chest. probably a good 150 lumens LED light, and some good Red Wing boots! maybe some pants too, but i can't ask for too much, can i?



"i don't like the safety (or complete lack thereof) on a Glock. it has nothing to do with the polymer frame"

-Don't pull the trigger until you want to shoot.

rukwikenuf wrote:
grousemaster wrote: -Don't pull the trigger until you want to shoot.


i have kids, and i refuse to own an automatic pistol without a safety. period. you won't get met to "join the darkside", as i also am not a fan of the grip angle. but thanks for the effort!


Last time I checked, the P226 doesn't have a safety, either. It has a decocking lever, but no safety.
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Re: Reliabilty

Postby Evo on Fri Jun 17, 2011 8:45 am

HammAR you have yet to add any pertinent info regarding the topic we disagree with and provide any type of feedback to go against what some of the top minds in the firearms industry say. You keep skipping over addressing your disagreement over the topic and selectively pick out your replies that have nothing to do with the topic. It is obvious you like to resort to making labels on people since you cannot provide anything of value to this thread.
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Re: Reliabilty

Postby hammAR on Fri Jun 17, 2011 8:50 am

MNNavy wrote:
rukwikenuf wrote:i have kids, and i refuse to own an automatic pistol without a safety. period. you won't get met to "join the darkside", as i also am not a fan of the grip angle. but thanks for the effort!


Last time I checked, the P226 doesn't have a safety, either. It has a decocking lever, but no safety.

You should look at the HK45, as it has a combination safety and decocking lever......
and HK changed the grip-to-slide angle to match a Model 1911’s profile... :hmm:
or you could just buy a 1911 and quit dinking around..... :cheers:
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