Why no used M&Ps FS ?

[Hmac]

Pretty sure all the FS M&Ps do this. As long as it strips a round when doing so it's a time saver. M&P also isn't the only brand to do this.

I'm going to guess everyone complaining about having to put parts on a gun after the fact has never owned an AR... or a 10/22 or a...

In that case, maybe I should view it as a design flaw that it only auto-forwards 80% of the time.

M&P by reputation and my own experience does it far more reliably than any semi-auto pistol that I know of. Regardless of its utility, and setting aside the risk that auto-forwarding entails, I'm pretty confident that it's a design flaw and not a "feature".

[Rem700]

Finding 40s no 9C yet

[SpiderPig]

My assumption is that total sales have a ways to go before we will see them on the used market with the frequency of Glocks and XD's.

[MNGunGuy]

In that case, maybe I should view it as a design flaw that it only auto-forwards 80% of the time.

M&P by reputation and my own experience does it far more reliably than any semi-auto pistol that I know of. Regardless of its utility, and setting aside the risk that auto-forwarding entails, I'm pretty confident that it's a design flaw and not a "feature".

Don't slap the magazine in and it won't lift off the slide stop. From what I've read the "issue" has to do with how much force the recoil spring is exerting on to the slide stop and if you seat the magazine with enough force it causes the slide to lift off the frame and lighten enough for the stop to release. If I slap the magazine home I can make the slide release 100% of the time when there's 6 or more rounds in my 17 round mag with my Pro. My Shield doesn't do it at all no matter the round count or the force used.

What risk does it releasing the slide cause? Other than it failing to strip a round and causing you to address a FTF I don't see how you not having to manually rack the slide or release the stop is causing additional risk.

[Hmac]

In that case, maybe I should view it as a design flaw that it only auto-forwards 80% of the time.

M&P by reputation and my own experience does it far more reliably than any semi-auto pistol that I know of. Regardless of its utility, and setting aside the risk that auto-forwarding entails, I'm pretty confident that it's a design flaw and not a "feature".

Don't slap the magazine in and it won't lift off the slide stop. From what I've read the "issue" has to do with how much force the recoil spring is exerting on to the slide stop and if you seat the magazine with enough force it causes the slide to lift off the frame and lighten enough for the stop to release. If I slap the magazine home I can make the slide release 100% of the time when there's 6 or more rounds in my 17 round mag with my Pro. My Shield doesn't do it at all no matter the round count or the force used.

What risk does it releasing the slide cause? Other than it failing to strip a round and causing you to address a FTF I don't see how you not having to manually rack the slide or release the stop is causing additional risk.

I appreciate the advice on seating semi-automatic pistol magazines.

As to the danger, it depends on where the pistol is pointing when you slap the magazine home, doesn't it? Downrange? Up and left? (which is your daughter's bedroom). Since this is not conventional semi-automatic pistol manual of arms, not an advertised design feature, and the vast majority of good quality pistols don't do it (given the same amount of force) then I conclude it's a defect in some M&P pistols. Mine included.

[bensdad]

What risk does it releasing the slide cause? Other than it failing to strip a round and causing you to address a FTF I don't see how you not having to manually rack the slide or release the stop is causing additional risk.

A gun doing something unpredictable is always bad. I'm not gonna argue about this. I'm right.

[tizzo]

Auto forwarding is discussed on other forums. Some people think its a design flaw, other a purposeful technique.

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.p ... pic=136819

From what I gather there are three main downsides to auto forwarding:

1. You're technique as to be perfect, reliability of this method is not 100%
2. Failure to strip a round out of the magazine is moderate to low
3. There is a probability that you could experience a slam fire with the muzzle pointed in an unsafe direction.

With all of this I don't rely on auto forwarding at all even though some think its faster than using the slide release.

[t140]

Auto forwarding is discussed on other forums. Some people think its a design flaw, other a purposeful technique.

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.p ... pic=136819

From what I gather there are three main downsides to auto forwarding:

1. You're technique as to be perfect, reliability of this method is not 100%
2. Failure to strip a round out of the magazine is moderate to low
3. There is a probability that you could experience a slam fire with the muzzle pointed in an unsafe direction.

With all of this I don't rely on auto forwarding at all even though some think its faster than using the slide release.

How can it slam fire with a firing pin safety? Any evidence of this happening or is it theory?

[tizzo]

How can it slam fire with a firing pin safety? Any evidence of this happening or is it theory?

Theory, I've heard it happening before while slingshotting a slide. I would consider #3 a "worst case" scenario. The first two issues are enough for me not to do it.

[t140]

How can it slam fire with a firing pin safety? Any evidence of this happening or is it theory?

Theory, I've heard it happening before while slingshotting a slide. I would consider #3 a "worst case" scenario. The first two issues are enough for me not to do it.

You've heard of it as in, it happened to a friend? Or you read it on the interwebs? Was it with an M&P specifically?

A lot of questions, I know. But it concerns me.

[tizzo]

How can it slam fire with a firing pin safety? Any evidence of this happening or is it theory?

Theory, I've heard it happening before while slingshotting a slide. I would consider #3 a "worst case" scenario. The first two issues are enough for me not to do it.

You've heard of it as in, it happened to a friend? Or you read it on the interwebs? Was it with an M&P specifically?

A lot of questions, I know. But it concerns me.

It came up when I was discussing auto forwarding with a friend at a local match. It apparently had happened at a match he had attended. I don't recall type of gun.

[Hmac]

Auto forwarding is discussed on other forums. Some people think its a design flaw, other a purposeful technique.

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.p ... pic=136819

From what I gather there are three main downsides to auto forwarding:

1. You're technique as to be perfect, reliability of this method is not 100%
2. Failure to strip a round out of the magazine is moderate to low
3. There is a probability that you could experience a slam fire with the muzzle pointed in an unsafe direction.

With all of this I don't rely on auto forwarding at all even though some think its faster than using the slide release.

Yes. Personally, I'm in the design flaw/defect camp and those are three good reasons. Having said that, it's a defect that is managable with training and practice and I don't consider it a reason to get rid of the gun. That, however, along with the marginal stock trigger and accuracy issues, has left me a little disappointed with my M&P 9L.

[Rem700]

I am in the flaw catagory and have had it happen with other semi autos as well. Does it do it more often now then when new?
How how often do you use the slide stop as a slide release?

Isnt your muzzle pointed in a safe direction when inserting a magazine anyways?

If your firearms fails to pickup a round while autoforwarding does it do it as well when slingshoting the slide?

Does it fire while slingshoting not just while autoforwarding? Dirty fireing pin. Weak or broken fireing pin spring?

[Hmac]

My M&P has auto-forwarded like that since it was new and still does at about the same rate after about 5000 rounds. I've never had it fail to pick up a round. For my part, I always use an overhand slide release, almost never the slide release/slide stop. The only time I actually slingshot the slide (two finger as opposed to overhand) is chambering a round from a closed slide.

Finger off trigger and muzzle control are the key safety factors obviously and IMHO rigid attention to those concepts mitigates the risk that that defect causes. The fact that it is doing something unexpected, however, does take away some of the safety margin. As I said, it's a problem that's managable for me with practice, training, and experience.

Manufacturing defects on current pistols certainly aren't unheard of. I have a Glock 19 that routinely kicked brass at my face - another manufacturer's defect that I was able to fix (so far) with some aftermarket parts. Although I still own both of those pistols, I have moved almost entirely to my PPQ. With about 1500 rounds through it, I've yet to find any functionality or safety issues with that pistol. I admit, however, that my preference for the PPQ isn't about its functionality...I just shoot it better.

[tizzo]

I am in the flaw catagory and have had it happen with other semi autos as well. Does it do it more often now then when new?
How how often do you use the slide stop as a slide release?

Rarely, but mine is rather stiff and takes some muscle to operate. Bought my M&P last fall. I wouldn't be surprised if the autoforwarding becomes more consistent as the slide lock wears down.

Isnt your muzzle pointed in a safe direction when inserting a magazine anyways?

Some may argue that having the muzzle pointed upward (45 angle) toward the back stop, as is common in USPSA/IDPA, would be "unsafe"

If your firearms fails to pickup a round while autoforwarding does it do it as well when slingshoting the slide?

I believe the failure to strip a round off the mag has to do with the slide moving forward when the magazine is "over inserted". Remember, the slide is being shot forward while your hand is likely forcing the magazine upward to a higher point than it normally seats.

Does it fire while slingshoting not just while autoforwarding? Dirty fireing pin. Weak or broken fireing pin spring?

From what I've heard the slam fire was after slingshotting the slide, actual cause of the slam fire unknown.