Why isn't this one legal?

View · by **bobbfrommn** on Thu Feb 07, 2013 7:56 am

Ok just curious. I was killing some time browsing Bud's when I came across this 1911 style .22LR. Nothing fancy but the wife has a birthday coming up and she's been wanting a paper shooter so I thought I'd take a look. Then I notice at the bottom it says not legal in MN. So then I start looking at all the ones in the 1911 .22LR section and they all seem to say not legal in MN. So then I bop over to their 1911 section and all of the 45's and such are legal as well as a couple marked .22LR (although different brands from the ones in the .22LR section).

So now I'm really curious why are these 1911 .22LRs illegal for sale in MN? Is it the manufacturer? Sample below:

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/prod ... +Grip+Matt

View · by **CarRacer** on Thu Feb 07, 2013 8:00 am

The metal construction of those cheaper 22 guns conflicts with the requirements of a "Saturday night special" clause in a law here.

View · by **Hmac** on Thu Feb 07, 2013 8:28 am

Frames are constructed of zamak III which has a melting point below what Minnesota law allows under its "Saturday Night Special" law. Zamak III is a zinc alloy also known as "pot metal".

View · by **Special Projects** on Thu Feb 07, 2013 9:50 am

How do they grade 'pot metal'? I have a Sig Mosquito that is pot metal, sold, bought, used...as far as I am aware, legally, in MN.

View · by **bobbfrommn** on Thu Feb 07, 2013 10:41 am

Ahh I get it. Cool, I was really curious. Thanks!

View · by **Hmac** on Thu Feb 07, 2013 11:00 am

Special Projects wrote:How do they grade 'pot metal'? I have a Sig Mosquito that is pot metal, sold, bought, used...as far as I am aware, legally, in MN.

Minnesota statutes:

Subd. 4.Saturday night special pistol."Saturday night special pistol" means a pistol other than an antique firearm or a pistol for which the propelling force is carbon dioxide, air or other vapor, or children's pop guns or toys, having a frame, barrel, cylinder, slide or breechblock:

(1) of any material having a melting point (liquidus) of less than 1,000 degrees Fahrenheit, or

(2) of any material having an ultimate tensile strength of less than 55,000 pounds per square inch, or

(3) of any powdered metal having a density of less than 7.5 grams per cubic centimeter.

I note that Zamak 3 meets NONE of those three requirements. The ultimate tensile strength of Zamak 3 is 38,000 PSI, the melting point is 729, and its density is 6.7 g/cc.

Zamak 3 is chosen as a component in order to hit a price point. It's easily cast and easy to machine without being hard on the tooling...what little machining is required.

View · by **nframe** on Thu Feb 07, 2013 7:38 pm

I seem to be missing something, how about poly framed pistols. I have a ruger p97, and a fnp45 with plastic frames?

View · by **Cavscout** on Thu Feb 07, 2013 8:06 pm

That's lame. A 22LR doesn't take a very strong material, "quality" aside.

I doubt a Sig Mos has a very high quality frame.

View · by **xd ED** on Thu Feb 07, 2013 8:09 pm

nframe wrote:I seem to be missing something, how about poly framed pistols. I have a ruger p97, and a fnp45 with plastic frames?

They have identifiable steel subframes, and there's a technical difference( Which I cannot explain off the cuff) about the behavior of the polymers when heated .

View · by **Squib Joe** on Thu Feb 07, 2013 9:50 pm

We've gone over this before but..

Polymers melt, warp, and burn but they don't become liquidus as required by state law, pretty much only metals do that.

View · by **cigartim** on Sat Feb 09, 2013 7:45 pm

Two important distinctions: It is not illegal for you to own a "saturday night special", it is only illegal for an FFL to transfer one to you in this state. Also, this only applies to pistols. I had an FFL refuse to order me a ISSC 22lr scar clone. Legally they could have because that is a rifle. I purchased elsewhere.

624.716 SATURDAY NIGHT SPECIALS PROHIBITED; PENALTY.
Any federally licensed firearms dealer who sells a Saturday night special pistol, or any person who manufactures or assembles a Saturday night special pistol in whole or in part, shall be guilty of a gross misdemeanor.

View · by **LePetomane** on Sat Feb 09, 2013 8:07 pm

Hmac, Thanks for posting that statute. It makes me wonder who came up with it and don't the legislators have anything better to do?

View · by **AFTERMATH** on Sat Feb 09, 2013 9:59 pm

Laws named after songs....
And the lawmakers question our sanity?

View · by **Hmac** on Sun Feb 10, 2013 2:37 pm

LePetomane wrote:Hmac, Thanks for posting that statute. It makes me wonder who came up with it and don't the legislators have anything better to do?

My guess is that the whole "Saturday Night Special" laws represent yet another politically misguided "feel-good" legislative attempt to get guns off our streets, focusing on the cheap guns. Apparently a remnant from another era. I would bet that Minnesota's SNS law mirrors or is identical to the statutory language seen in such bills in other states from years gone by. There are no Federal laws against domestically-produced "junk guns", although they are apparently prohibited from importation.

Here's an interesting overview: http://smartgunlaws.org/design-safety-s ... y-summary/

A lot of the SNS bandwagoning is based on the study done in Maryland that concluded that there was an 8.6% decrease in gun homicides between 1990 and 1998 as a result of their SNS ban. I haven't read that study, but I am highly skeptical that such a decrease, which was generally seen all across the US, can be attributed to their Saturday Night Special law, and even more skeptical that it's applicable today.

Cavscout wrote:That's lame. A 22LR doesn't take a very strong material, "quality" aside.

No, I agree. The stated reasons for banning Saturday Night Specials around the country was apparently about preventing impoverished criminals from being able to afford a pistol :roll:

, not about consumer product safety.

View · by **Thunderjohn** on Sun Feb 10, 2013 6:03 pm

Special Projects wrote:How do they grade 'pot metal'? I have a Sig Mosquito that is pot metal, sold, bought, used...as far as I am aware, legally, in MN.

The Mosquito is a polymer frame.

Sig has another 1911 22LR that is about 32oz. that is probably legal here. haven't
checked yet but I'm thinking it's steel with that much weight.
But it's about $40 more than the zinc frame model.
There are many dealers out there selling the zinc 1911 22's, whether they know about and don't care or just don't know.