Single stack vs single stack?

[darkwolf45]

The standard sidearm in the US Military is the Beretta M9 which replaced the antiquated 1911. So it's apparent the 9mm is better! nuff said.

Because the M9 isn't even shot in BCT - you're under gunned with anything shy of a rifle.

Yep, the military likes 9mm because it's cheaper and easier to train, and mainly because they don't think handguns are important.

All GI military weapons are bought primarily for cost reasons. All DoD is concerned about is how easy it is for the average joe with no firearm experience to enlist and put as many bullets down range as possible as cheaply as possible. We were always told to remember that our rifles were made by the lowest bidder, and the way they performed it really showed.

9mm hand guns were no exception. I dont remember any 1st sergeant or officer ascribing any level of devotion to their 9mm while I was in. In fact, they couldnt have cared less. That said, i believe that the army still offers 1911s for those who are not happy with the 9mm.

[Ron Burgundy]

All GI military weapons are bought primarily for cost reasons. All DoD is concerned about is how easy it is for the average joe with no firearm experience to enlist and put as many bullets down range as possible as cheaply as possible. We were always told to remember that our rifles were made by the lowest bidder, and the way they performed it really showed.

9mm hand guns were no exception. I dont remember any 1st sergeant or officer ascribing any level of devotion to their 9mm while I was in. In fact, they couldnt have cared less. That said, i believe that the army still offers 1911s for those who are not happy with the 9mm.

You're half right. DOD buys from the lowest bidder (who meets minimum specifications). If party A (FN for example) can provide a per unit savings that still meet the requirements that should not imply it is a worse product than from party b (colt for example).

If the DOD really was focused on price, Primary Arms would be making a ton of money selling their knock off aim points to the DOD.

[grousemaster]

The 9mm really in an anemic round compared to the .45ACP using anything but the best and newest JHP's. Plenty of documented cases of poor ballistic performance of the 9 round in Iraq and Afganistan. The Marines just ordered a few thousand 1911's from Colt.

[MNGunGuy]

The 9mm really in an anemic round compared to the .45ACP using anything but the best and newest JHP's.

For civilian or police use why would you compare them any other way but using the latest and greatest? Who here still buys self defense rounds designed 20 years ago?

Plenty of documented cases of poor ballistic performance of the 9 round in Iraq and Afganistan. The Marines just ordered a few thousand 1911's from Colt.

The Hague Convention doesn't allow the use of bullets that flatten or expand. Just like the rest of the tech they carry, if they could be running a modern bullet they would.

[xd ED]

The 9mm really in an anemic round compared to the .45ACP using anything but the best and newest JHP's.

For civilian or police use why would you compare them any other way but using the latest and greatest? Who hear still buys self defense rounds designed 20 years ago?

Plenty of documented cases of poor ballistic performance of the 9 round in Iraq and Afganistan. The Marines just ordered a few thousand 1911's from Colt.

The Hague Convention doesn't allow the use of bullets that flatten or expand. Just like the rest of the tech they carry, if they could be running a modern bullet they would.

you mean, like 45acp ball ammo? That goes back a bit farther....

[MNGunGuy]

you mean, like 45acp ball ammo? That goes back a bit farther....

I was going to mention that as well but figured most people would be running a JHP of some type in their own hand guns. Maybe not...

[grousemaster]

you mean, like 45acp ball ammo? That goes back a bit farther....

I was going to mention that as well but figured most people would be running a JHP of some type in their own hand guns. Maybe not...

Quality ball ammo I adequate for SD from a .45ACP....plus it feeds more reliably. Considering our troops are limited to FMJ, it's a real wonder why we adopted the 9mm.

[MNGunGuy]

Considering our troops are limited to FMJ, it's a real wonder why we adopted the 9mm.

The troops say/think the same thing about 5.56x45.

[XDM45]

you mean, like 45acp ball ammo? That goes back a bit farther....

I was going to mention that as well but figured most people would be running a JHP of some type in their own hand guns. Maybe not...

Quality ball ammo I adequate for SD from a .45ACP....plus it feeds more reliably. Considering our troops are limited to FMJ, it's a real wonder why we adopted the 9mm.

Seriously? .45ACP FMJ is decent enough for SD?

Ok, now I'm curious...... Why do you say that? Is there something I can look at to compare between FMJ and JHP? I always figured JHP for SD was the way to go.

[tman]

Seriously? .45ACP FMJ is decent enough for SD?

I think it's been pretty well proven as a stopping round over the last 100 years of use.

What type of bullets do you think we're carried prior to the invention of hollow points?


Sent from my iPhone using that app which shall not be named.

[XDM45]

Seriously? .45ACP FMJ is decent enough for SD?

I think it's been pretty well proven as a stopping round over the last 100 years of use.

What type of bullets do you think we're carried prior to the invention of hollow points?

Sent from my iPhone using that app which shall not be named.

Well, we used to drag women around the the hair too, and while it works, it's looked down upon these days, , just as I imagine using ball ammo for SD vs. JHP may too.

I know ball ammo is older, but there must have been a reason for JHP, for improvement, some reason why. In war, it's one thing, but in SD as a civilian, it's another thing entirely. I have to worry about over-penetration and things that in war, you don't necessarily need to worry about as much (from a legal standpoint).

[grousemaster]

Seriously? .45ACP FMJ is decent enough for SD?

I think it's been pretty well proven as a stopping round over the last 100 years of use.

What type of bullets do you think we're carried prior to the invention of hollow points?

Sent from my iPhone using that app which shall not be named.

Well, we used to drag women around the the hair too, and while it works, it's looked down upon these days, , just as I imagine using ball ammo for SD vs. JHP may too.

I know ball ammo is older, but there must have been a reason for JHP, for improvement, some reason why. In war, it's one thing, but in SD as a civilian, it's another thing entirely. I have to worry about over-penetration and things that in war, you don't necessarily need to worry about as much (from a legal standpoint).

It works because it's already .45" wide. How wide do you think the best 9mm bullet expands?

JHP's are better at creating wider wound channels, but .45" is a pretty wide wound channel already. A good JHP .45 round is best, but a quality ball round will do in the .45

[goalie]

You guys crack me up.

The military doesn't field handguns as offensive weapons. They are what they are: something to help you fight to a rifle.

[Ron Burgundy]

.45 is > 9mm & JHP is > FMJ & Glock > 1911

[XDM45]

JHP's are better at creating wider wound channels, but .45" is a pretty wide wound channel already. A good JHP .45 round is best, but a quality ball round will do in the .45

What about over-penetration with FMJ vs. JHP? or are they the same/similar?