1911 build, bad idea?

[JeffD]

I am thinking of building a 1911. I have done a couple ARs and would like to try something else. I know that ARs are not at all the same and a 1911 is a much bigger project. I'm sure many will say it's cheaper to buy a gun. What I'm looking for is some advice from someone that has actually done this. Is there a kit out there? should I look for a cheap GI gun to start with? I understand most of this can be done with hand tools but are there other tools that I may need? I have done some research and am looking for other people's ideas and opinions. Sorry if this has been covered before and thanks for your time and comments.

-Jeff

[TTS]

If you are looking for a kit these are the best:
http://www.fusionfirearms.com/product-category/kits/1911-pistol-kits/

ETA:
Get Jerry Kuhnhausen's two volumes on gunsmithing the 1911
For a barrel I would look at Karts EZ fit kit
I prefer to get a slide and frame that are pre-fit (Fusion or Caspian)

I'll think of more later, it has been years since I built one.

Here is a good tool list from the 1911 forum, many of these will depend on what frame and parts you order.

1. Barrel Alignment Block http://www.brownells.com/aspx/ns/sto...GNMENT%20BLOCK

2. Lug Cutter http://www.brownells.com/aspx/ns/sto...20LUG%20CUTTER

3. Slide Lapping Tool. (not a necessity but it sure makes the job easier) http://www.brownells.com/aspx/ns/sto...LAPPING%20TOOL

4. Sear/Hammer Jig. There are several manufacturers of jigs that do this function. This is the one I bought. If I remember correctly it came in a kit of tools I bought. It works well. http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/sto...20HAMMER%20JIG

5. Sight Base Files. http://www.brownells.com/aspx/ns/sto...ail.aspx?p=698

6. Dykem Layout fluid. I use this stuff and a Black Sharpie. http://www.brownells.com/aspx/ns/sto...LAYOUT%20FLUID

7. Trigger Track Stone. (this stone is worth its weight in gold) http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/sto...x?p=798&st=&s=

8. Locking Lug file. http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/sto...G%20LUG%20FILE

9. Trigger, Hammer, & Sear Kit. I bought one of these kits to get the tools for a good trigger job. http://www.brownells.com/aspx/ns/sto...20&%20SEAR%20K

10. Vise Jaws. http://www.brownells.com/aspx/ns/sto...%20VISE%20JAWS

11. Lug Iron. This tool is used to smooth machine tool marks from the inside curved surface of the slide. Not necessary but it does work well to really smooth up the action. http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/sto...=lug%20iron&s=

12. Frame holding fixture http://www.brownells.com/aspx/ns/sto...DING%20FIXTURE

[Rip Van Winkle]

I would recommend starting with a copy of this book.



Then you can go to Brownells and empty your bank account.

[FJ540]

Do you have access to a mill and lathe? Do you know how to use them?

[JeffD]

I do know how to use them. I do not currently have access to these. How much machine work needs to be done? It looks like I will have quite a bit more money into this than I thought. A decent frame and slide are getting into Kimber prices and thats before anything cool. Maybe I should put the money towards an Ed Brown or Nighthawk? So, I guess the question is, was it worth the time/money and would you do it again? If I get all the tools and jigs and stuff I would be set up to do it again. Just trying to look at all the angles before jumping in head first

[TTS]

I do know how to use them. I do not currently have access to these. How much machine work needs to be done? It looks like I will have quite a bit more money into this than I thought. A decent frame and slide are getting into Kimber prices and thats before anything cool. Maybe I should put the money towards an Ed Brown or Nighthawk? So, I guess the question is, was it worth the time/money and would you do it again? If I get all the tools and jigs and stuff I would be set up to do it again. Just trying to look at all the angles before jumping in head first

You could always buy an in expensive Springfield or Rock Island and customize it. Buds has the RIA right now for less than $350... That is less than most bare frames.

[JeffD]

I was wondering if that makes sense. In theory, I could learn the do the easy stuff and maybe tighten up the slide and a trigger job. I would have all the parts to at least start with and upgrade a little at time. Then I could see how each upgrade affects the gun? Is there something I'm missing? Is there a reason someone would not want to start with a RIA?

[mmcnx2]

Just to put things into perspective, 'building' an AR is like assembling a lego set. You have all the parts, they are all preconfigured and there is a standard way they go together. An AR is really and assmebly process verse build.

A 1911 build is like making the tooling to form the lego pieces.

[JeffD]

Yeah, I totally understand that AR "builds" are not nearly as involved and are not even the same idea. I think I have my doubts about how to approach the project. I guess if someone that has done it said "it was fun but not sure I would do it again" or "not worth the time" or "hell yeah, the coolist thing I've done" it may help me go one way or another.

[LumberZach]

I was wondering if that makes sense. In theory, I could learn the do the easy stuff and maybe tighten up the slide and a trigger job. I would have all the parts to at least start with and upgrade a little at time. Then I could see how each upgrade affects the gun? Is there something I'm missing? Is there a reason someone would not want to start with a RIA?

I have often thought about this myself. The RIA guns are very good guns for the money. I think it would make a fun project. I think making a 1911 would be fun as well, but I need to read more into that before that becomes a possibility. A 1911 for $350 is almost too good to pass up, I may just need to find some money to blow on that right now...

[gun_fan111]

With Rock Island, you would have to plan to refinish the slide to get rid of that big ugly while logo

[dronning]

+1 on the RO

Competitive out of the box and may even cost less than building one if you find a good deal.

Has:

match sights
stainless steel match barrel and bushing
ejection port is lowered and flared
trigger is adjustable for overtravel
trigger is clean and crisp BUT a little heavy at just over 4lbs
slide-to-frame fit - awesome for a sub $1K gun

Needs:

checkered front strap - or you can add grip tape or the Wilson slip on one for 10 bux
lighten trigger by adjusting sear spring

[FJ540]

I wouldn't compare building a 1911 is like making the molds to make legos, but it would be like if you had to hand fit every lego to fit into the other ones.

If you can get a nighthawk for $1300-1600, then you shouldn't be building guns.

I had so much fun building my first 2011, I started building my second one before finishing the first. They're addictive. I'd like to do more.

As to building on a RIA gun - it's a RIA and will always be a RIA. That's not a problem for a shooter, but it is a problem if you want to charge for your upgrades at some point down the road when selling it. Is someone going to pay 1K+ for your custom RIA? It's possible, but I'm not sure how easy it would be to find that buyer. Norinco's have a great rep for solid frames. Maybe RIA will attain that level of appreciation someday, maybe not. Right now it's a gun that sells for $350 when the cheapest Springfield is selling for 550. Lots of people build higher end guns on the bottom tier springer frames.

Mill is needed for doing slide serrations or other slide mods, mag well chamfering the easy way, making the butterfly cut or Nowlin or Para cuts, raising the trigger guard (I forget what that cut is called - I'm currently on drugs ), golfballing, and barrel hard fitting. Lathe is needed for fitting the barrel bushing. Either way, you'll want a rotary tool of some form, good sharp fine cut files, and a lot of sandpaper.

[JeffD]

So that 1300-1600 range includes the tools you used also? I found your thread on your build also. The gun looks great. I'm not sure how I feel about the plastic/metal frame on the STI. Seems like it would change the balance of the gun and make it shoot more like a Glock. Is that true? have you shot yours yet? But looking around so far the STI seems like a good bang for your buck to start.

[FJ540]

If I included the tools I used, it would be a $13,000 gun.

STI 2011's don't shoot like glocks. There's no ridiculous backstrap hump or insanely steep grip angle. There's no comparison. They're slightly wider than a single stack 1911, but fill your hand a little differently while still having a 1911 trigger. I have large hands, and I actually prefer the grip of the 2011. There's no difference in the slides between the two. The trigger bow has to be wider to clear the mag, and the frame is different (obviously), which means you need a wider mag release; but everything else is common to the 1911 platform.

I've shot both builds several hundred times. The 9mm had over 200 rounds through it before the sight cuts were made. I carry the .45 commander daily and have for a few months now. I have no regrets about either project and found them very enlightening about the gun and how little things change their performance/reliability.