Longer barreled ar pistol legality

[Vashjir]

Great choice. I love the mako magwell grip as well as their pistol grip. I run both on my 300blk pistol. I will mention though, that it was designed around the colt receiver, which means that some receivers might make installation challenging. As you know, some seams and protrusions are different, so out of the box fitment isn't guaranteed. I've read many stories where a Dremel is required to alter. I was lucky, mine fit on the advanced armament lower out of the box.

A quick google search popped up a couple armslist postings with the anderson/mako combination, so hopefully it'll be plug and play, if not, the dremel is close at hand.

[jimbob85]

The over 26" OAL being a "firearm" and allowed to have a VFG attached is a federal thing. I believe that does NOT apply to Minnesota. I may be wrong, but I believe Minnesota considers over 26" with a VFG an SBR and thus trouble. Please double check this before you become Bubba's play toy.

[TTS]

The over 26" OAL being a "firearm" and allowed to have a VFG attached is a federal thing. I believe that does NOT apply to Minnesota. I may be wrong, but I believe Minnesota considers over 26" with a VFG an SBR and thus trouble. Please double check this before you become Bubba's play toy.

Any statue to back up this statement?


Definition of pistol:

Subd. 2.Pistol. "Pistol" includes a weapon designed to be fired by the use of a single hand and with an overall length less than 26 inches, or having a barrel or barrels of a length less than 18 inches in the case of a shotgun or having a barrel of a length less than 16 inches in the case of a rifle (1) from which may be fired or ejected one or more solid projectiles by means of a cartridge or shell or by the action of an explosive or the igniting of flammable or explosive substances; or (2) for which the propelling force is a spring, elastic band, carbon dioxide, air or other gas, or vapor.
"Pistol" does not include a device firing or ejecting a shot measuring .18 of an inch, or less, in diameter and commonly known as a "BB gun," a scuba gun, a stud gun or nail gun used in the construction industry or children's pop guns or toys.

Defenition of Shotgun and SBS:

Subdivision 1.Definitions. (a) "Machine gun" means any firearm designed to discharge, or capable of discharging automatically more than once by a single function of the trigger.
(b) "Shotgun" means a weapon designed, redesigned, made or remade which is intended to be fired from the shoulder and uses the energy of the explosive in a fixed shotgun shell to fire through a smooth bore either a number of ball shot or a single projectile for each single pull of the trigger.
(c) "Short-barreled shotgun" means a shotgun having one or more barrels less than 18 inches in length and any weapon made from a shotgun if such weapon as modified has an overall length less than 26 inches.

I don't even see a definition of Short Barreled Rifle in the statutes?

[Randygmn]

The over 26" OAL being a "firearm" and allowed to have a VFG attached is a federal thing. I believe that does NOT apply to Minnesota. I may be wrong, but I believe Minnesota considers over 26" with a VFG an SBR and thus trouble. Please double check this before you become Bubba's play toy.

Any statue to back up this statement?


Definition of pistol:

Subd. 2.Pistol. "Pistol" includes a weapon designed to be fired by the use of a single hand and with an overall length less than 26 inches, or having a barrel or barrels of a length less than 18 inches in the case of a shotgun or having a barrel of a length less than 16 inches in the case of a rifle (1) from which may be fired or ejected one or more solid projectiles by means of a cartridge or shell or by the action of an explosive or the igniting of flammable or explosive substances; or (2) for which the propelling force is a spring, elastic band, carbon dioxide, air or other gas, or vapor.
"Pistol" does not include a device firing or ejecting a shot measuring .18 of an inch, or less, in diameter and commonly known as a "BB gun," a scuba gun, a stud gun or nail gun used in the construction industry or children's poup guns or toys.

Defenition of Shotgun and SBS:

Subdivision 1.Definitions. (a) "Machine gun" means any firearm designed to discharge, or capable of discharging automatically more than once by a single function of the trigger.
(b) "Shotgun" means a weapon designed, redesigned, made or remade which is intended to be fired from the shoulder and uses the energy of the explosive in a fixed shotgun shell to fire through a smooth bore either a number of ball shot or a single projectile for each single pull of the trigger.
(c) "Short-barreled shotgun" means a shotgun having one or more barrels less than 18 inches in length and any weapon made from a shotgun if such weapon as modified has an overall length less than 26 inches.

I don't even see a definition of Short Barreled Rifle in the statutes?

Any firearm with a barrel shorter than 16" with a stock, is an sbr according to the ATF
Without a stock, it can be a pistol if originally built that way
If a pistol has a VFG, it becomes an sbr
If a pistol has a VFG, but has an oal over 26", it becomes an AOW (any other weapon). It is no longer a pistol, and so none of the allowances under a PTC are conveyed.

For practical purposes, I think it falls under the legal guidelines of a rifle. I could be wrong about that and if I am I'd like to be corrected

[Bearcatrp]

https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/?id=624.712
Have tried to find anything that described SBR but no luck. Reading this, don't think OAL of 26 inches or more but less than a 16 inch barrel is considered just a firearm as per ATF. Am starting to wonder about mine I built. OAL is 27 inches with a 10.5 inch barrel and a sig brace. If someone can find any statue listing SBR and things related to the sig brace, please post.

[Randygmn]

Everything you'd ever want to know is contained herein.
Direct from the BATFE
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_122/5250 ... stols.html

[TTS]

"Pistol" includes a weapon designed to be fired by the use of a single hand and with an overall length
If a pistol has a VFG, but has an oal over 26", it becomes an AOW (any other weapon). It is no longer a pistol, and so none of the allowances under a PTC are conveyed.

For practical purposes, I think it falls under the legal guidelines of a rifle. I could be wrong about that and if I am I'd like to be corrected

This is incorrect... over 26" w/o a stock is a "firearm" and can have a VFG. I'll find the ATF letter and link it.

ETA: ATF Letter
http://www.franklinarmory.com/XO-26_Letter__c_.pdf

[Randygmn]

"Pistol" includes a weapon designed to be fired by the use of a single hand and with an overall length
If a pistol has a VFG, but has an oal over 26", it becomes an AOW (any other weapon). It is no longer a pistol, and so none of the allowances under a PTC are conveyed.

For practical purposes, I think it falls under the legal guidelines of a rifle. I could be wrong about that and if I am I'd like to be corrected

This is incorrect... over 26" w/o a stock is a "firearm" and can have a VFG. I'll find the ATF letter and link it.

ETA: ATF Letter
http://www.franklinarmory.com/XO-26_Letter__c_.pdf

Yes, you are correct. My mistake. Yet, it still is no longer considered a pistol and can't be used as such.

[Bearcatrp]

I have seen the letter from ATF. What I am looking for is the state of minnesota laws about SBR's and anything about these AR pistols with the sig brace. From the ATF version, I can put a VFG on mine but its considered a firearm since mine is 27 inches long to end of barrel threads (muzzle is not welded). State law I hope goes along with federal law on this. I don't want to find out the hard way though if minnesota considers mine a SBR.

[george]

ETA: ATF Letter
http://www.franklinarmory.com/XO-26_Letter__c_.pdf

Thanks for this, I'm downloading it into my phone documents with the Sig brace letter. I have the 10.5" on my 300AAC that is 26" w/o the break,
As I see it, It's a hunting pistol w/o the VFG and NOT a AOW with the VFG because of the at least 26" OAL.
Fun explaining that if stopped by LEO or Game Warden. It looks as if it's pushing the envelope anyway.
Thanks Again

[george]

I have seen the letter from ATF. What I am looking for is the state of minnesota laws about SBR's and anything about these AR pistols with the sig brace. From the ATF version, I can put a VFG on mine but its considered a firearm since mine is 27 inches long to end of barrel threads (muzzle is not welded). State law I hope goes along with federal law on this. I don't want to find out the hard way though if minnesota considers mine a SBR.

Me too,
If you find something, please post, as will I.

[jshuberg]

Minnesota has no laws defining an SBR.

[jimbob85]

I typed that kind of fast, it may not define a "firearm" over 26" with a vfg as an SBR, but I could've sworn there was something different here.

I may be thinking of MN carry statues or hunting statues.

Perhaps you can hunt with an AR "pistol" in a shotgun zone, but if that pistol is over 26" it's now a "firearm" and you shouldn't.

I could be wrong, but like I said, I thought there was something with the way MN law was interpreted that had to do with the 26" OAL and being slightly different than other locales.

[TTS]

Minnesota has no laws defining an SBR.

This.

If something is not specifically prohibited by law it is legal. Because the state has not said anything, you have to rely on federal law.

Subd. 2.Pistol. "Pistol" includes a weapon designed to be fired by the use of a single hand and with an overall length less than 26 inches, or having a barrel or barrels of a length less than 18 inches in the case of a shotgun or having a barrel of a length less than 16 inches in the case of a rifle (1) from which may be fired or ejected one or more solid projectiles by means of a cartridge or shell or by the action of an explosive or the igniting of flammable or explosive substances; or (2) for which the propelling force is a spring, elastic band, carbon dioxide, air or other gas, or vapor.
"Pistol" does not include a device firing or ejecting a shot measuring .18 of an inch, or less, in diameter and commonly known as a "BB gun," a scuba gun, a stud gun or nail gun used in the construction industry or children's poup guns or toys.