Laser sights

[TC95GT]

I have a laser on my snub nose and use it as a training aid at home like Dean mentioned. When I go to the range I usually remove the laser and shoot with the iron sights only. I will use the laser on occassion at the range but usually just to adjust it and make sure it is accurately set for 15 feet. I kind of view it as an "extra feature" on the gun. Not sure if this is the best way to utilize one or not.

[JonL]

I'm surprised that no one's mentioned night sights, etc. as an alternative. I have no experience in non-range / poorly lit REAL situations and sure ain't an authority on alternative sights but have noticed that some of the guns I rent are much easier to sight than others. I understand from other threads / forums, that WTSHTF, point shooting rather than sight shooting is the norm. Would it be hijacking the thread to discuss sighting alternatives?

[plblark]

It's a good subject, I recommend making a new thread and linking to it here.

[CraigJS]

I like the Crimson Trace grips on my PCR, but I don't rely completely on them. Anything man made can fail. I have a P226 Sig with its famous "to hell and back reliability", the front sight FELL OFF! Putting all your eggs in one basket is never a good idea..
Be safe.

[hypertech]

Has anyone tried the laser sights that go on the recoil spring?

I've often thought they would be a good alternative to a DGU if the time, threat, and Mr Murhpy allowed it.

There is nothing that I can think of that would scare somebody worse than having a red dot show up on their chest.

[Pat]

I have a unit which essentially replaces the recoil spring guide rod. Lasermax is the manufacturer. I have it mounted in a Beretta M9.

The laser beam is pulsed, and fairly quickly. If I had that red rod snapping at my thoracic cavity, I'd drop the TV right then and there...

It works surprisingly well, and it's fun!

[Eagun]

Greetings:

I'm probably showing my rookie idiocy here and invite refutation and/or ridicule, but I think of laser sights as a huge benefit to a carry gun and would not carry one without them. Of the brands available, I only like the ones that turn on when you grab the gun. Crimson Trace grips are by far my favorite of these--I find their fine-tuning and consistent accuracy remarkable--but for the price I'm also impressed with Armalaser (though they alter the shape of the handgun quite a bit). I had a LaserMax but didn't like the idea of having to press a little button to turn it on. I too like shooting with laser sights switched off at the range and often use them there only to make sure they're sighted in. But it seems to me that in the unlikely scenario of having to draw a gun in self-defense, instant-on laser sights can provide increased possibilities for hitting the assailant(s) and avoiding hitting other people. I wince at the price of Crimson Trace grips but still factor them in as part of the cost of the carry gun. I also believe that taking training courses designed to increase skills in self-defense situations would be beneficial, but I honestly haven't taken any of these courses yet.

[Seismic Sam]

Several points: ttousi had a woman student who had never shot a gun before, and she was just plain horrible, and couldn't hit anything at 21 feet, until he handed her his 642 with the LG's, and then she hit the target. We're talking the worst shot you've ever seen in your life w/o Lasergrips, and passable with them. It was a night and day difference.

Night sights - my 50 GI comes stock with the Heine nights sights, and while they would be very nice for a jungle ambush of some sort, in an urban environment involving car headlights, street lights, or anything else, their utility is limited, and if somebody points even a small flashlight at you, they're useless.

Below is the first target I ever shot with LG 301's while I was half blind and monocular with catracts in both eyes, and I had to shoot left eye right handed for the first time in my life. The fact that I could shoot a 25 YARD group this good pretty much proves how miraculous Lasergrips are.



Next, the hard data from the CTC catalog cites approximately 20% hits fired by officers w/o LG's and over 80% hits fired by officers WITH LG's. That's a hell of a difference.

And finally, let's talk intimidation. Laser sights were first used in prison riot control, and when that little red dot wound up on a convicted murder's chest, they suddenly decided to become Brits and "nip off to have a spot of tea in me cell, governor!!" Somebody points a gun at you, maybe they're going to miss, and maybe they're not. You wind up with a red dot right over you're heart, and you KNOW positively that you're 100% F****D. Would this view be as intimidating without the light show?? I don't think so...

[JoeH]

First let me say that I have not used a laser before. I just can't see where it would benefit me.

There is no substitute for practice, practice, practice. If I shoot enough, the sight picture, muscle memory, etc all come together. I find that I just look where I want the bullet to go, bring up the gun, pull the trigger, BANG, the round goes where I am looking. If you asked me afterwards, "Did you aim or use the sights?" I'd say, "I don't know, it all kind of just happens."

I think that's a good thing and it only comes with a lot of practice. I can't see where using a laser would ever get me to that point.

Remember that these encounters are happening at close range and the BG could be closing in on you. You need to draw and hit COM fast. As fast as you can. A laser would only slow me down.

PS. I think that the effect of the red dot on a 300 pound BG on LSD is overrated

[phorvick]

PS. I think that the effect of the red dot on a 300 pound BG on LSD is overrated

It is. For fun, and with permission of those involved, I have pointed a laser pen at folks (without them knowing exactly "when" this would be done) and asked if they knew they were lit up. In most cases they did not know. Unless the lighting is such that the entire beam is visible, it is very possible that the bad guy will not know they are lit up. Again, for crowd control when the nearby other person sees you lit up, they are great.

There is no question that they are great confidence builders for new shooters and an incredible help if you are stationary and have time to find the dot etc....a fun range or play toy.

But for many, the jury is out on the utility for self defense, and I am on that jury. Yet, I use them for all new shooters....they do have a place for sure. If a person is well enough trained to know when NOT to use them, I would have no philosophical aversion to them at all.

Heck, they can be great tools.

[hammAR]

You could convert your maglight to a laser that burns, that would get their attention..........

How to make a maglite burn stuff.....................
http://lifehacker.com/software/diy/turn-a-...aser-287252.php

[Seismic Sam]

"PS. I think that the effect of the red dot on a 300 pound BG on LSD is overrated "

True, but the red dot still serves to deter the vast majority of people that you would draw on, and for those who can't or don't want to wake up and smell the coffee, a 300 GRAIN Gold Dot will do what the little red dot can't for that literally vanishingly small minority who ignore it.

P.S. If you've never tried lasersights, then you can't imagine what you're missing...

It's no different than having an opinion on the recoil of any caliber handgun that you've never shot before...

[macphisto]

If anyone is questioning cmj685's accuracy with or without a laser, don't. I saw him shoot with both yesterday and there wasn't a whole lot of difference; he's deadly accurate with each. He's also the third person in a week who shoots my guns better than I can. I need more practice!

[cmj685]

You're too generous with your praise, brother Macphisto. I felt an obligation to shoot well since you supplied the guns, the ammo and the targets! Didn't want to waste any of that ammo shooting it into the air. Thanks for letting me shoot the XD and the .357!

[JoeH]

P.S. If you've never tried lasersights, then you can't imagine what you're missing...

Don't underestimate my imagination