RMR, FFIII, other????

[goalie]

So, I am going to get an "optic ready" G34.

I have never used an optic on a pistol other than my deer-hunting 44mag that has a 2x Leupold scope on it. I recently got an Aimpoint PRO and it made me realize that being a dinosaur sucks and I should get into the 21st century.

Which sight should I get? Why? I don't mind spending money on optics, god knows I have enough rifles that cost less than their glass, but this isn't going to be my "social use" handgun either.

Anyhow, those of you who are running some kind of red-dot on your handgun, tell me what you would recommend and why, thanks!

[mmcnx2]

I've got a 34 with a Burris Fastfire III and like it. The cut on the slide is not intended for a scope they really are meant for the red dot reflex type sights.

You are welcome to try mine if you want to meet up at Osseo Gun Club some time. I'm actually going to be there on the evening of the 11th.

[LumberZach]

I bought an rmr. I've heard that when a pistol gets a really high round count with a red dot, the cheaper ones end up failing. I won't knock you for getting a Burris, but be aware.
The recoil of an optic sitting on the slide going back and forth for its entire life is what kills optics. If you were to get a frame mount rather than a slide mount then I would say go with a cheaper optic. I've had my eye on the alg 6 second mount for a whole now. YMMV.


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[goalie]

I bought an rmr. I've heard that when a pistol gets a really high round count with a red dot, the cheaper ones end up failing. I won't knock you for getting a Burris, but be aware.
The recoil of an optic sitting on the slide going back and forth for its entire life is what kills optics. If you were to get a frame mount rather than a slide mount then I would say go with a cheaper optic. I've had my eye on the alg 6 second mount for a whole now. YMMV.


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Define "high" round count. I have a G17 with over 50k through it, but I bought it on 1994.

I will probably shoot 1k a year with that pistol.

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[UnaStamus]

Freddie Blish, the president of Robar, has been pretty vocal about the RMR being the most durable for pistol use. Pistol RDS get killed by recoil at a very high rate. Thus far, the RMR has been the most reliable. Some have been killed by pistols, but it's a small number when compared to other brands. The second more reliable thus far has been the Leupold DeltaPoint Pro. Given the cost of the Leupold DP-PRO, the RMR is a far better option anyways.

The MRDS is a good option on pistols for people with failing vision, or for other specific needs like better long range precise shot placement. A pistol RDS is not going to be faster than iron sights, so be careful about getting into an RDS just to "join the 21st Century". Paul Howe of CSAT has noted that no student running an RDS has passed the time standards for his tests.

Get into the pistol RDS for the right reasons. Fun, accuracy, just for the hell of it, failing vision, etc. Don't get into it thinking it works the same as a rifle RDS.

[mmcnx2]

I bought an rmr. I've heard that when a pistol gets a really high round count with a red dot, the cheaper ones end up failing. I won't knock you for getting a Burris, but be aware.
The recoil of an optic sitting on the slide going back and forth for its entire life is what kills optics. If you were to get a frame mount rather than a slide mount then I would say go with a cheaper optic. I've had my eye on the alg 6 second mount for a whole now. YMMV.


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Burris has a lifetime warranty. As does Vortex. If they fail just mail it in.

[goalie]

Freddie Blish, the president of Robar, has been pretty vocal about the RMR being the most durable for pistol use. Pistol RDS get killed by recoil at a very high rate. Thus far, the RMR has been the most reliable. Some have been killed by pistols, but it's a small number when compared to other brands. The second more reliable thus far has been the Leupold DeltaPoint Pro. Given the cost of the Leupold DP-PRO, the RMR is a far better option anyways.

The MRDS is a good option on pistols for people with failing vision, or for other specific needs like better long range precise shot placement. A pistol RDS is not going to be faster than iron sights, so be careful about getting into an RDS just to "join the 21st Century". Paul Howe of CSAT has noted that no student running an RDS has passed the time standards for his tests.

Get into the pistol RDS for the right reasons. Fun, accuracy, just for the hell of it, failing vision, etc. Don't get into it thinking it works the same as a rifle RDS.

Interesting. So, why are all the top gamers running them? Sincere question, as I am not a pistol guy, and, from what I've seen, there are a lot of dudes shooting really fast with a RDS.

I pretty much want one just to try it out, and, as I said, it isn't going to be a "social use" weapon, so I'm not too concerned about speed.



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[mmcnx2]

Trijicon has done a good job of marketing, they also sponsor a number of pro shooters thus they get a lot of press as being the 'best'.

The reality is there are a number of equally good sights, get a lifetime warranty and get the features you want. The Burris for me is the 'right' choice because it has variable brightness settings which I need for my eyes in various lighting conditions. I looked at the Leupold I felt it was over priced and their service has been spotty in my experience. I've got 3 of the Fastfires, 2 on revolvers and one on the 34. I also have a C-more and 2 Bushnell units. Each has its place.

[goalie]

The warranty makes me think that the FFIII might be the one for me. I can get that and suppressor height sights for the price of the RMR.

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[Erik_Pakieser]

I've been carrying RMR-equipped guns for a year now, and I also own a FF3 I've had mounted on a few guns.

For serious use, the RMR wins without question. Of course it's also way more expensive. But have 100% confidence my RMR will work, and I can't say the same for my FF3.

For recreational use, the FF3 is just fine, but the RMR is miles ahead of it.

[UnaStamus]

Interesting. So, why are all the top gamers running them? Sincere question, as I am not a pistol guy, and, from what I've seen, there are a lot of dudes shooting really fast with a RDS.

I pretty much want one just to try it out, and, as I said, it isn't going to be a "social use" weapon, so I'm not too concerned about speed.

There's nothing wrong with doing it if you want to. I have had conversations with people in the LE world that want them thinking they get you on target faster and help you run the gun faster like an RDS does on a rifle, and that's not accurate about the RDS on a pistol.

Like mmcnx2 pointed out, there are a lot of pro shooters sponsored to run those optics. You also have to consider what Class these shooters are competing in with their pistols. In USPSA for example, you can only use an electronic sight for Open division or Carry Optics division. Most of the top level shooters are running Open division from what I've seen. Open basically allows you to modify the piss out of your pistol to the point where it can run on the minimum power factor of ammunition at as fast of rate as possible. Essentially, you have built guns that barely recoil, so the shooters aren't struggling against the recoil and are keeping the sights on target far more effectively than if they were to be running an unmodified duty/defense grade production pistol using factory ammo (like in the Carry Optics division).

You also have to consider that some of those guys like Dave Sevigny or Jerry Miculek are freaks of nature.

[mmcnx2]

Interesting. So, why are all the top gamers running them? Sincere question, as I am not a pistol guy, and, from what I've seen, there are a lot of dudes shooting really fast with a RDS.

I pretty much want one just to try it out, and, as I said, it isn't going to be a "social use" weapon, so I'm not too concerned about speed.

There's nothing wrong with doing it if you want to. I have had conversations with people in the LE world that want them thinking they get you on target faster and help you run the gun faster like an RDS does on a rifle, and that's not accurate about the RDS on a pistol.

Like mmcnx2 pointed out, there are a lot of pro shooters sponsored to run those optics. You also have to consider what Class these shooters are competing in with their pistols. In USPSA for example, you can only use an electronic sight for Open division or Carry Optics division. Most of the top level shooters are running Open division from what I've seen. Open basically allows you to modify the piss out of your pistol to the point where it can run on the minimum power factor of ammunition at as fast of rate as possible. Essentially, you have built guns that barely recoil, so the shooters aren't struggling against the recoil and are keeping the sights on target far more effectively than if they were to be running an unmodified duty/defense grade production pistol using factory ammo (like in the Carry Optics division).

You also have to consider that some of those guys like Dave Sevigny or Jerry Miculek are freaks of nature.

Your a little off on the open guns. They actually have to make a major power factor(bullet weight x velocity /1000 must be 165 or greater) which in most cases far exceeds factory rated ammo. I shot open for years in 38 super, still have the gun. The open guys mostly run 2011 variants and the optics are frame mounted verses slide for faster sight picture recovery, also reduces the mass movement which allows the gun the cycle faster.

In terms of LE, again understand these are done by agencies putting out a spec and getting bids, companies work very hard to tune that spec to basically make their product the exclusive item. The fact LE uses something is little to no indication of the quality or functionality of a product. LE over and under buy all the time, it is like any other government institution - do you really think they are the ultimate authority on much?

[Holland&Holland]

The warranty makes me think that the FFIII might be the one for me. I can get that and suppressor height sights for the price of the RMR.

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My 2 cents, and probably not worth that.

I have a delta point pro on top of a 10mm 1911 longslide. Does not get volume but seems to be holding up to heavy hunting loads and holding zero.

I have a ff3 on a shotgun speedbeed mount. Not the same recoil of course and it has held up but it is not as solid as the delta point. Just little things were you might have to mess with it or it has shut down. With the shotgun I still can see the bead so it is not the end of the world but usually happens when a rooster flushes.

I also have an rmr but on an AR so can't report on it for a pistol but having all 3 my gut tells me I would trust the delta or the rmr on a defense handgun but not the burris. For a range toy though... burris is probably fine.

[Squib Joe]

If price is the reason you don't want a RMR, I would look at the Vortex Venom

[usnret]

Just go with a C-More. I have tried the FastFire's and didn't really like them for fast target acquisition. I find the dot and target much faster with a C-More. By the way, this is a Glock 34. The mount is from Carver Custom.