Police going back to 9mm?

[Angel Eyes]

Ammo shortage, I could understand.
The new, modern bullets used in 9 mm are also used in 40 S&W.
A bigger, heavier, bullet at faster velocities like the 155 gr & 165 gr bullets are going to out perform any 9mm +P or +P+ anyday .
Those +P+ rounds really chew up your gun too if used too much. I don't know why more depts. don't use the hi-cap 45's that are out.
With the 200 or 185 gr +P loads they are super deadly. Hitting with 479 to 535 ft-lbs of energy, they could take down a 350 lb man with one shot !
Even with the +P loads, in 45 they are reletively low pressure compared to 9mm +P, +P+, and 40 S&W. Most 40's however are built to withstand the hi pressure.
In Phila, PA cops have the option to carry 9mm, 40 or 45. I know three officers who switched to 45 acp. and they say it's the best thing the dept has done in years.

[monschman]

Ammo shortage, I could understand.
The new, modern bullets used in 9 mm are also used in 40 S&W.
A bigger, heavier, bullet at faster velocities like the 155 gr & 165 gr bullets are going to out perform any 9mm +P or +P+ anyday .
Those +P+ rounds really chew up your gun too if used too much. I don't know why more depts. don't use the hi-cap 45's that are out.
With the 200 or 185 gr +P loads they are super deadly. Hitting with 479 to 535 ft-lbs of energy, they could take down a 350 lb man with one shot !
Even with the +P loads, in 45 they are reletively low pressure compared to 9mm +P, +P+, and 40 S&W. Most 40's however are built to withstand the hi pressure.
In Phila, PA cops have the option to carry 9mm, 40 or 45. I know three officers who switched to 45 acp. and they say it's the best thing the dept has done in years.

To coment on a few of your points
(a) yes
(b) no
(c) they can do
(d) money
(e) really, come on now, thats just being obnoxious, its almost like you work for the marketing depatrment at "Extreme Shok"
(f) yes
(g) yes
(h) This aint Philly

[plblark]

The new, modern, bullet technology is used in constructing both bullets. There is a weight and shape difference at the two extremes of those different calibers and the common loadings in either differ.

Talking to a guy who was in on the SPPD decision, he said it's about availability of the ammo. This makes sense. If Federal or whomever is running 9mm on a line, it's not much problem to change which bullets go into the hopper. .40 and .45 use completely different dies.

IIRC, it was 17 months wait for .40 ammo and ~22 months for .45 in quantity.

[rugersol]

I never heard anyone whine that .357 was not 'nuff?!

In fact, I never heard anyone whine when they said it was too much?!

Anyone think a .355 bullet's that much less 'n a .357 bullet?!

+P sounds 'bout right ... and I'd never question any modern pistol's durability, with a steady diet ... particularly with a stronger spring ... most of the same guns are available in .357 Sig!

If the cops ain't gettin' +P, I 'spose that'd be somethin' to consider.

Even then, it's jest splittin' hairs!

[Pinnacle]

This is one of those rare cases where size doesnt matter all that much - dead is dead...

[xd9]

Yeah, that poor boy in the news just died from a .22 shot to the neck. I guess If it can project and break the skin, it can be lethal.

[Pinnacle]

Yeah, that poor boy in the news just died from a .22 shot to the neck. I guess If it can project and break the skin, it can be lethal.

Anyone starting to get the point?

[spliznat]

This is what I have heard from the grape vine.....................


take it for what ya will. I have heard the switch is being made back from the .40 to 9mm because of the rise in women joing the police force. The women are having a tough time getting a grip on the .40 pistols and thus having trouble qualifying. The hand for a women is generally smaller and the 9mm pistols are more accomidating. So........ to try to avoid a gender war with the ..........mine is bigger than yours type of slander most departments are chosing the way of the 9mm. Just what I heard so say what ya will.

[MrVvrroomm]

There is no difference in the size of the grip in a service pistol chambered in 9 or 40 (provided the same manufacturer and line).

The smaller hands may be able to better handle the recoil in 9mm though.

[Pinnacle]

This is what I have heard from the grape vine.....................


take it for what ya will. I have heard the switch is being made back from the .40 to 9mm because of the rise in women joing the police force. The women are having a tough time getting a grip on the .40 pistols and thus having trouble qualifying. The hand for a women is generally smaller and the 9mm pistols are more accomidating. So........ to try to avoid a gender war with the ..........mine is bigger than yours type of slander most departments are chosing the way of the 9mm. Just what I heard so say what ya will.

As an IALEFI instructor I will tell you that this is well, somewhat true. Dont blame women on not being able to handle the 40 - there are plenty of good sized men out there that are not able to handle the recoil speed of the 40 with the 135gr bullets. Take shooters of equal stature and ability - give odne a 40 and gove one a 9, see who wins...

The 40 is a serious recoiling weapon no matter what you may want to believe. I DONT like it - DONT recommend it - and will only train very experienced shooters with it.

[rugersol]

.40's typically significantly higher power-factor ... 175pf ... vs. 137pf fer 9mm ... vs. 192pf fer .45acp.

Of course .40's harder recoiling than 9mm ... in guns of nearly identical weight ... it's more powerful ... that was kinda the point.

As has been said, grip-size is typically identical, for same model/manufacturer ... no manufacturers, that I know of ... offer any variance in grip-frame size, 'tween 9mm 'n .40 ... in the same model. If anything, a .40 may even be somewhat lighter ... less metal in the breach-face ... and the bore/chamber.

However, in a pistol of significantly more mass, than the popular plastic models, .40's no big trick!

That said, I believe most cops are lookin' to carry the popular plastic models.

[UnaStamus]

In short, bullet technology caught up. With the bonded bullets and better powders, 9mm has become a very viable cartridge.
Ultimately, there is no magic bullet, and regardless of what the .45ACP purists out there say, the handgun as a whole is a very ineffective platform for putting people down quickly. That's why God invented rifles.

[Paul]

In short, bullet technology caught up. With the bonded bullets and better powders, 9mm has become a very viable cartridge.
Ultimately, there is no magic bullet, and regardless of what the .45ACP purists out there say, the handgun as a whole is a very ineffective platform for putting people down quickly. That's why God invented rifles.

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=19369&p=215090&hilit=+combat#p215090

I carry combat calibers like 9mm, .40 or .45. My primary gun is a Glock 27 with night sights and a Pearce +1rd magazine grip extension, and a spare magazine in my pocket. The G27 is a combat capable pistol, and I've trained extensively with it in order to use it in sustained engagements. I am as accurate with it as I am my duty-issued G22. I carry a gun that I know I can get into down and dirty combat with.

[sochr000]

**** the police

Off-topic (like that hasn't been the last few pages...) but I love how Michael says that his arms hurt so bad he can't get his hand above his shoulder, although he later brushes his hair away from his face...

[tman]

I love how Michael says that his arms hurt so bad he can't get his hand above his shoulder, although he later brushes his hair away from his face...

John McCain can't comb (what's left of) his own hair thanks to his treatment as a POW. Watch how he moves his arms sometime.

Sorry about contributing to the thread drift...