.357 Sig vs. .40?! ... vs. .45?!

[illbits]

I can fit 25 rounds of .357 sig in a 22-round glock mag with a +2 extension!

[grousemaster]

I can fit 25 rounds of .357 sig in a 22-round glock mag with a +2 extension!

.357 Sig rounds are the same size as .40 rounds, so it sounds like a +3 extension to me!

[goett047]

I can fit 25 rounds of .357 sig in a 22-round glock mag with a +2 extension!

.357 Sig rounds are the same size as .40 rounds, so it sounds like a +3 extension to me!

Not if you load them in a 9 mm case

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[Pat Cannon]

If you can't stop the bad guy with first 20 rounds, you should probably save the last 5 for yourself.

[gyrfalcon]

If you can't stop the bad guy with first 20 rounds, you should probably save the last 5 for yourself.

bad guys... because when that platoon attacks you the caliber of your pistol is really going to count.

[goett047]

If you can't stop the bad guy with first 20 rounds, you should probably save the last 5 for yourself.

bad guys... because when that platoon attacks you the caliber of your pistol is really going to count.

Ask Sgt York

[rugersol]

If you can't stop the bad guy with first 20 rounds, you should probably save the last 5 for yourself.

[XDM45]

I don't see anything wrong with 9mm, .357 or .40, to each their own... but my personal preference is the .45ACP round x 14 (1 in the chamber and 13 in the mag of my XDm.)

[rugersol]

how 'bout these?! ...





I really didn't wanna try to argue the details ... but in trying to link to something that simply made my point for me, I was unable to find anything I thought did a good 'nuff job, of it!

Anyhow ... some more food fer thought! ...

• as has been stated, a common reason for selecting the .357 Sig is the venerable "125gr JHP" (presumably moving at 1,300fps+) ... why?! ... #1 answer: "it's the best proven man-stopper" ... based on?! ... probly Marhsal & Sanow ... anything else?!

• presuming the Marshal & Sanow data is correct ... and that it does in fact show that the "125gr JHP" is superior ... some observations can be made to bring it into question ...

• what timeframe are we talking about, here?! ... is this 30yr+ ago?! ... before 9mm and .40 have had a chance to "be counted"?!

• how many of these "125gr JHP" victories were from a .357 Sig ... and not otherwise a .357 revolver?! ... if you were shooting to save your life, and had only 6rd ... wouldn't you make a point to be more accurate, with 'em?!

• if ya hit a bad guy in the arm with a "125gr JHP", will he still die instantly?! ... or does it actually matter WHERE ya hit 'em?!

• let's say, for one second, that accuracy is #1, bar none ... could we then conclude from the Marshal & Sanow data that the "125gr JHP" has simply been shot by more superior marksmen, than any other?!

• there's also a psychological aspect! ... a "willingness to continue" ... simply because someone's been struck by a "125gr JHP", and collapsed, does not mean they died ... at that moment!

• conversely, someone on considerable drugs, or adrenaline, might very well require additional hits, regardless!

• who typically carried .357 revolvers?! ... traffic cops?! ... detectives?! ... what types of calls were they likely to respond to?! ... was one more likely to encounter a suspect well after the "heat of the moment" ... in a more "relaxed state"?!

• given nearly an identical weight bullet ... in a nearly identical diameter ... at a nearly identical velocity ... exhibiting nearly identical results in gelatin ... are we honestly to believe that one has some sort of mystical qualities, inherent merely by its moniker?!

I'm not really bent outta shape over .357 Sig! ... but I can't help but wonder why it's still around?! Marketing aside, I can't even appreciate why it was ever created?!

As Sam pointed out, 9x23 is jest as well! ... I'm too lazy to look it up, but if 9mm+P+ can't quite make it, I'm sure it wouldn't take much to develop a new, comparably sized case, that would! (presuming typical owners would still want/need a narrower grip than the 9x23 otherwise affords?!) ... a round that keeps the original 9mm rim diameter, but still delivers these magical ballistic numbers, I could appreciate!

Ultimately, if .40 is "short 'n weak", when necked-down, it's simply "short 'n weaker"! ... what remains is simply a matter of what can otherwise easily be overcome by a new $8 spring!

That ain't to say, anyone carrying a .357 Sig is in any kinda jeopardy! ... at the very least, they've got a very hot 9mm! ... I'm sure it'll do jest fine!

Only, I can otherwise see no way in which it might be superior to other popular choices!

[Seismic Sam]

And if you want to really talk ultimate 9mm performance, there is the 9x25 Dillon, which is the 10mm case necked down to 9mm, and velocities are humongous Doubletap has a 125 grain Defensive load that goes 1700 fps for 800 ft-lbs...

And to echo the previous sentiment, leaving 10mm out of the original poll is kind of ignoring the elephant in the room

[grousemaster]

The .40 short and weak delivers more energy on target than the .45 with similar penetration and better barrier penetration. Plus it comes in a 9mm size frame and generally has a higher capacity. What's short and weak about it? Is it just because it's not as powerful as the 10mm? The .45 isn't as powerful as the 10mm either.

[rugersol]

leaving 10mm out of the original poll is kind of ignoring the elephant in the room

The poll was intended to tally .40 vs. .357 Sig, as they are so similar!

I added .45, for fun!

I didn't include 10mm ... or 9mm ... or .44-40 ... or .32-20 ... et. al.

Moreover, the context is "self-defense" ... and under $1,000, in 10mm, most folks are limited to EAA, a Glock 20/29, or a Colt Delta Elite ... where preferable carry guns appear to be the smaller Glocks, XD's, M&P's, and various other single-stack lightweight guns, it appears, for all intents and purposes, 10mm is simply not a viable option!

More, moreover, I'd suggest, if one desires .357-type ballistics for defensive use, one should take a closer look at .38 Super ... and if one desires heavier bullets, one should take a closer look at .45 ACP! ... 10mm offers little more than an "out of the box" semi-auto better suited to "hunting"! ... otherwise a .45 ACP 5.25 XDM with heavy springs and .45 Super brass can approach (typical) .44 Mag numbers!

Then again, for hunting with a handgun, everyone knows a .300 BLK AR pistol trumps all others!

[tazdevil]

Why does this remind me of a thread I started a long time ago.....Oh that's right, I started a more evil thread than this one, the 9 versus 40 or 45! The horror! THE HORROR!

The 357 sig round sounds interesting, I need to go try it out someday.

[tman]

I'm not really bent outta shape over .357 Sig! ... but I can't help but wonder why it's still around?! Marketing aside, I can't even appreciate why it was ever created?!

My guess:

.357 Sig fits in the frame of a 9mm-sized automatic whereas .357 magnum doesn't. 13-15 rounds, vs 6 or 7 from Pat's wheel gun with nearly the same ballistics. I've never shot anything in .357 Sig, so I don't know about recoil with it. Didn't some say it's comparable to 9mm?

It is perhaps marketing, but it seems to be more accepted than Glock's .45GAP...

[rugersol]

I'm not really bent outta shape over .357 Sig! ... but I can't help but wonder why it's still around?! Marketing aside, I can't even appreciate why it was ever created?!

My guess:

.357 Sig fits in the frame of a 9mm-sized automatic whereas .357 magnum doesn't. 13-15 rounds, vs 6 or 7 from Pat's wheel gun with nearly the same ballistics. I've never shot anything in .357 Sig, so I don't know about recoil with it. Didn't some say it's comparable to 9mm?

No question ... vs. a revolver, it's got a lot to love!

My point was, why not a .40, instead?!

I suppose, it's possible, a 125gr bullet traveling a bit faster, might yield a bit less recoil, than a 135gr bullet traveling a bit slower ... I'd think the weight of the gun, itself, would be an overriding factor ... but I have no proof!

It is perhaps marketing, but it seems to be more accepted than Glock's .45GAP...

At least .45 GAP served a purpose! ... that no one cared, is somewhat irrelevant!