Small Guns

[David]

We all like our .45s, 9s, .357s, etc. Most people seem to carry 9 or higher, and no matter who you are, it's easy to find a medium to large gun that will fit your hand and be comfortable to shoot. But how about wee guns? What works for a gal or gent with big hands? What functions flawlessly, has a nice trigger, and a smooth recoil?

I was looking at my wall the other day (the one with the guns hanging on it), and I noticed I had quite a few that fit into the "small" category, and that I don't shoot that much. I started thinking about why that is, with an eye toward taking some of these safe queens out to the prom once in a while...

HKP7—Sure, it's not really a "small" gun, but it's not very big for a 9, and its blowback operation feels more like a .380 than any of my other 9s. I'm talking about that short-stroke sharpness that .380 shooters are familiar with. I'm not a huge fan of the trigger (the let-off is ghost-like, with no crispness), and the squeeze-cocker is more of a novelty than anything else for me (I also don't like that it makes a loud noise when you release your grip), but it's a fantastic gun in terms of accuracy and reliability, and of course cool-factor and uniqueness.

SIGSauer P230S—This is my favorite. Small, but larger than many. Gorgeous, sexy, accurate, reliable, and not bitchy at all. The stainless steel gives it a bit more heft to take a bit of bite out of the short stroke. Excellent crispy trigger with nice reset. I doubt that I'll ever fire something in .380 that I like better than this gun.

HK4—A less-refined version of the P230 above. Nice, but the grip doesn't extend far enough, so if you've got larger hands like I do, the web between your thumb and booger-flinger gets caught between the hammer and grip. Ouch! One VERY cool thing about this gun is when you get it in kit form, though. In a separate box is all the parts, laid out in gear-head glory, to make it a .380, .32, .25, and .22LR! The box and extra parts are actually cooler than the pistol itself. Trigger is okay, reset is adequate. Finish is slightly rough. Sights are rudimentary.

Baikal Makarov—If you want an example of 70s-era second-rate cold war Soviet awesomeness, this is the gun to have. The "neutered" 9x18 caliber gets you style points, as does the unmistakeable profile and Bakelite grips. It doesn't hold a candle to a SIG or even a PPK, but it brings a sense of history and mojo to the table that none of the others do.

Vz 50—If this gun had the history of the Makarov, it would be even cooler. It's a better gun, actually. Nicer trigger (single-action, though. The double action is painfully severe), VERY cool "merlot" finish, Bakelite (or "Bakelite-like" plastic) grips, excellent accuracy, cool .32 caliber, and Czech "in your face" attitude. I like this gun a lot, and its price makes it one of the best values in small guns out there. You'll want new sights though. They work, but they suck.

Seecamp LWS32—I bought this gun in a moment of weakness. Every now and then Larry makes a few guns when he's not busy making parts for the aerospace industry, so they are rare for a while, and all of a sudden there are tons of them around. They were something like $900 at the time when you could find one used (this was back in the late 90s), and then one day a bunch appeared on the shelf for $500 new. It's very well-engineered, high-quality finish and machining, and a cool little design. Excellent polished stainless magazines. You can't buy a smaller .32, that's for sure. Certainly not with this quality. However, it's a one-trick pony, with no sights, and a "barrel" that is machined out of a block, rather than a round bar, so the bore isn't even necessarily "in-line" with your line of sight. I tend to shoot several inches low with it, and no, I'm not anticipating. The recoil is punishing in a sharp, short-stroke sort of way, the trigger is weird, and it's hard to hold onto if you have larger hands. Another really limiting factor is the fact that standard .32 ammunition won't feed. It requires short bullets (such as squared-off hollowpoints), and in fact the manual says that the only ammo it's guaranteed to work with is Winchester Silvertips. Certainly there are others out there, but having to use defense loads makes it more expensive to shoot than most other .32s. There are some really cool and innovative accessories for it, though (like the "wallet"), and there is a cult-following for this firearm that would make fans of most others seem like hobbyists. I don't think I'd buy it again, but it's cool for a collection. I shoot it once in a while just to remind myself why I don't like to shoot it.

Any guns to add? Surely there are some small-gun aficionados around here!

[JFettig]

you have too many guns, please donate some to me and I will aid you with your next decision.

at least quit making me jealous.

[DeanC]

You didn't mention the BERSA Thunder. Lighter than a Walther. Operates with more variety of ammo. Costs a fraction.

[JohninMinnesota]

You didn't mention the BERSA Thunder. Lighter than a Walther. Operates with more variety of ammo. Costs a fraction.

But do you like it? Is it reliable? I am actually considering one of these, but only as a *fifth* backup thunderwear gun.

[JohninMinnesota]

SNIP

SIGSauer P230S—This is my favorite. Small, but larger than many. Gorgeous, sexy, accurate, reliable, and not bitchy at all. The stainless steel gives it a bit more heft to take a bit of bite out of the short stroke. Excellent crispy trigger with nice reset. I doubt that I'll ever fire something in .380 that I like better than this gun.

SNIP

Sexy is good. Gorgeous is good. SIG is good. I searched for P230S and couldn't find it on gunbroker, then found a P232... which seems almost as rare.

[Srigs]

You didn't mention the BERSA Thunder. Lighter than a Walther. Operates with more variety of ammo. Costs a fraction.

But do you like it? Is it reliable? I am actually considering one of these, but only as a *fifth* backup thunderwear gun.

I like mine and yes it is reliable.

I also like all the Kel-tecs for smaller guns.

[DeanC]

But do you like it? Is it reliable?

I like it a lot. I don't recall any failures of any kind with it.

[Pat]

I have a Beretta Tomcat 3032, in .32 ACP. Just for S&G one day, I fired it at a box of phone books, which I had been using for air rifle practice in the basement. The SilverTip bullet went through one solid foot of metro phone books, packed tightly, and embedded itself in the concrete under the floor's carpeting. I was absolutely shocked by what that little critter could do! I had to pry the bullet out of the concrete with a screwdriver.

I know it was a dumb thing to do, so please feel free to chastise away... I kind of like that sort of thing anyway

[chunkstyle]

I have many Makarovs. Hard to beat for accuracy. Rugged and simple design, comrade. And the 9x18 is nothing to sneeze at, if you are looking at 9mm caliber. Kinda like .380 "Super".

On that vein, I also have a PA-63, from Hungary. Pretty much a PPK, but in 9x18, and much lighter ally frame. Stout felt recoil, but easily concealed. A summertime CCW favorite, for me.

A bit bigger is the CZ-82, also in 9x18, but more ergonomic, and even more accurate, due to the "smoothbore" polygonal barrel.

In "real" 9mm, a nice small pistol is the STAR BM. 1911 styling, single action, all steel construction.

Sure, I have Berettas, SiGs, big wheelguns, and whatnot, but I'm much more likely to actually carry the li'l guys. Easy to carry 2 at once, too!

[JohninMinnesota]

I have a Beretta Tomcat 3032, in .32 ACP. Just for S&G one day, I fired it at a box of phone books, which I had been using for air rifle practice in the basement. The SilverTip bullet went through one solid foot of metro phone books, packed tightly, and embedded itself in the concrete under the floor's carpeting. I was absolutely shocked by what that little critter could do! I had to pry the bullet out of the concrete with a screwdriver.

I know it was a dumb thing to do, so please feel free to chastise away... I kind of like that sort of thing anyway

Boy that *was* really dumb - next time place your shot at the trades section instead of the professional services, which we all know is just a bunch of hot air... and see how far you get. You'll probably get a bunch of phone calls thanking you for making them feel *better* after shooting them with that little thing

[David]

Dean, I didn't mention the Bersa because I wanted to keep my comments to guns that I own and have a lot of experience with. I did shoot my brother's Bersa .380 one day at the range not too long ago, and it malfunctioned constantly. He finally figured out that it was finicky with certain ammo, and it worked really reliably once he nailed down the right flavor. Others seem to have good luck with it as well.

Oh, and John, the differences between the 230 and 232 are pretty minor. Different slide serrations and slightly different grips, for the most part. The 232 has been around for a while now, and is the current model, while the 230 was discontinued. I love the way it feels, so I don't think I'd want different grips on it, and I like having "retired" models. That's one reason I like to collect old HKs!

This discussion is really making me think about looking at small guns again.

[Squib Joe]

Seecamp LWS32—I bought this gun in a moment of weakness. Every now and then Larry makes a few guns when he's not busy making parts for the aerospace industry, so they are rare for a while, and all of a sudden there are tons of them around. They were something like $900 at the time when you could find one used (this was back in the late 90s), and then one day a bunch appeared on the shelf for $500 new.

This started when Seecamp purchased a CNC machine in 1992 and a second CNC machine in 1997. Production probably caught up around 2001 or 2002.
I have a "hand machined" LWS 32 from 1989 and I like it, even if I don't much enjoy shooting it.

[Molasses]

the squeeze-cocker is more of a novelty than anything else for me (I also don't like that it makes a loud noise when you release your grip),

To uncock a P7 without the "clack", try this:
Unload it and look again to ensure it's unloaded (it's probably best to have it unloaded the first half dozen or so times you try this). Grip it hard enough to depress the cocking lever and then move your middle finger out of the way, up by the index finger alongside the frame. Rotate your wrist to the side so you're looking at the bottom side of the trigger guard. Tucked in directly behind the trigger guard, up above the top of the cocking lever is a little latch that, if depressed, will release the cocking lever with a noise level comparable to many safeties, versus the "clack". I find the tip of my left thumb will (barely) fit in there to release the latch.

Personally, I think the whole squeeze cocking thing is the best thing since sliced bread; no safety to have to find and flick off, one trigger pull all the time and not cocked at all until I'm ready to shoot. Just up with the piece and when the left hand meets the right in a push-pull isometric grip, it's ready to fire.

[David]

To uncock a P7 without the "clack", try this...

Ooh! That's a neat little trick! Easy to do, too. Thanks!

[JohninMinnesota]

Do you have any of these David?