Carry gun suggestions or tips?

[unit44justin]

As far as the mag release goes on the Glock, try switching it to the other side.

[jshuberg]

There is no such thing as a slide release on a pistol. There is a slide lock. You can manually disengage the slide lock by pressing it down. Or you can simply use an overhand grip to pull the slide rearward and release. The latter being the preferred way except in competition, since it works on all semi-autos regardless of the location of the slide lock.

Not being able to reach the mag release with a proper shooting grip isn't unusual. Just practice turning the gun slightly in your hand when you bring it into your workspace for a reload, and then rotating it straight when punching back out to full presentation. I do this even when I can reach the mag release on smaller pistols. It's just a good idea to learn to operate your pistols one consistent way, that works with all of your guns. This ads no additional time to your reload, and doesn't rely on fine muscle control.

During a chemical cocktail dump, our body reacts the exact same way that it did when a caveman encountered a saber-tooth tiger. Fine muscle control is sacrificed in favor of gross muscle strength. The blood vessels closest to the skin contract to reduce bleeding. A whole assortment of physiological changes occur that while assisting the caveman, can work against you as a modern human trying to operate a firearm.

Training to the point where you can shoot a pistol using procedural memory (AKA muscle memory) is typically all that's needed to be able to shoot properly during a cocktail dump. If you have to think about grip, sights, etc. when shooting, that's when a loss of fine grained motor skills is tends to become a problem.

If your curious how your current pistol skills will serve you during a chemical cocktail dump, safety check your weapon for dryfire, and load your mags with snap caps. Put on a pair of surgical gloves, and submerge your hands in ice water for several minutes, until your hands begin to tingle and feel stiff. Be careful not to get frostbite, if your hands become numb you've left them in the ice water too long.

Once your hands have become cold enough to feel stiff, pull them out, strip your gloves off and immediately draw your weapon, dry fire, drop the mag, reload, dryfire again, etc. Cold, stiff hands very closely simulates the effects of a loss of fine motor control during a cocktail dump. Manipulating your gun under these conditions feels different, but if you've developed the muscle memory necessary, you'll find that you are in fact able to manipulate your gun without fine motor control without much difficulty at all.

Proving this to yourself with the ice trick is a good confidence booster if your concerned about how your hands will work if you find yourself in a life threatening situation, and experience the effects of a cocktail dump while still in the fight. Another reality is that quite often the situation is over before the full effects of a chemical cocktail hit you.

[gunsmith]

Along those lines:

Whenever I get 'Spooked' by something falling unexpectedly in another room, startling noise outside the window....Something that makes me Freeze-like-the-deer-in-the-headlights....I FORCE myself to move put my hand on a pistol (carried or inplace in the house) and go through the motions of firing four rounds and the re-assessing....not easy actually as I have 'Frozen'

I visualize and perform (as practical) unholstering, forming a good grip, using the sights, making 4 center-mass shots (not head shots)

Three years ago I was mugged and had to fire all 7 rounds in the gun at the bad guy and fortunately I did exactly as practiced. I was then able to very carefully aim the 5th shot right between his nipples and that ultimately stopped him.

The alternative would possibly have been getting the snot stomped out of me (all shots were fired while laying on the ground...totally unexpected) with permanent life-changing injuries.

[jshuberg]

There are stress inoculation firearm classes you can take to help with the psychology of finding yourself in a lethal force encounter. What can tend to happen is that the mind is spinning so fast that it struggles to stay in control. If you have a sufficient amount of training though, the best way to deal with this is let go and to *willingly surrender yourself to your training*. Don't try to keep your conscious mind in full control. Let it go, let your subconscious take over, and it will respond with your training like pressing play on a movie, without your having to logically think about what your doing.

The conscious mind actually contributes very little to a fight or flight situation. The deer in the headlights effect is basically the conscious mind getting in the way of your training, muscle memory and instincts from being able to take control and solve the problem for you.

In gunsmiths real life situation, it sounds like his mind got in the way of his instinctual, trained response initially, but very quickly he was able to overcome his mind spinning out of control and allow his training to take over.

Gunsmith, I'm curious, would you say that you had to struggle to think through the problem in order to respond correctly, or that you had to *stop* thinking and let your training and instinct take over?

I do a similar thing if something wakes me up in the middle of the night. Even if it's just my cat in the basement knocking something over, or a thunder-clap, etc. I take the opportunity to practice reacting while startled, disoriented and fuzzy headed.

What I do is take one one deep breath in, and then exhale quickly while saying "GO" to myself in my head, and then immediately forcing myself to move. My practiced response then just kicks in the same way I can instinctively hit the clutch, hit the break, turn the steering wheel, and turn my head and look all simultaneously without thinking about it if someone swerves into my lane.

It's possible to think through a situation in real time and be able to properly react, but it's much harder when the mind is spinning out of control, and the body is going into caveman mode. It's the reason kids with a new drivers license get into so many more accidents, they don't yet have the instinct to react to a threat, and they have to struggle to think it through.

[Series 70]

My wife has small hands with short fingers. The only pistol she can hold properly and still get her finger correctly positioned on the trigger is a Bersa Thunder. She could also probably make it work on my son's Walther PP if he didn't have rather fat stocks on it. I have had her try regular M&P's with the smallest backstrap, the Shield, XD/S, 1911s with thin stocks, J-frames with boot grips, and a Glock 19.

I'm going to have her try the Springfield EMP; that seems like a likely candidate, especially if I can find a short trigger for one.

[LePetomane]

My wife has small hands with short fingers.

Same with Mrs. Lepetomane. She alternates her carry weapon between a Beretta Nano and a S&W Airweight and likes them both.

[srtolly]

I think everyone covered the slide operation. I have the same issue and trained myself to use my support hand to actuate the magazine release from a two handed grip. That said, I don't carry a spare magazine. If I'm ever in a situation where I need to draw a firearm the odds I'll need a reload are so slim I don't worry about it. I carry a 1911 and I think 7 rounds is plenty.

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk

[gunsmith]

In gunsmiths real life situation, it sounds like his mind got in the way of his instinctual, trained response initially, but very quickly he was able to overcome his mind spinning out of control and allow his training to take over.

Gunsmith, I'm curious, would you say that you had to struggle to think through the problem in order to respond correctly, or that you had to *stop* thinking and let your training and instinct take over?

I was straddling my bike adjusting the streaming app on my phone on the sidewalk at an intersection. The thug RAN up behind me tried to rip the right rear pocket off my pants (a practiced move on his part) when unsuccessful he pushed me (and bike) to the ground and darted to his running, un-occupied get-away vehicle.

Unfortunately for me I was now laying on my back tangled up in the bike IN FRONT of his get away SUV. I could see the suspension members, radiator, inside of tires (turned sharply to the left to speed his getaway) and hear the engine running. I looked around and saw my smartphone on the sidewalk and then realized "the sheot had hit the fan" and I was in a fight.

From getting hit till that moment I was in the 'Shock and Awe' events were moving too fast to make sense of.

I was 'behind' in the OODA LOOP (observe, orient, decide, act cycle) and could only play defense.

At that point I turned the tables became the aggressor. Wrestling training rather than firearms training came into play here. In wrestling either opponent is frequently fighting from the bottom...he's been taken down and is working for a 'reverse' You are used to 'Fighting' and you are frequently fighting as the underdog.

When I turned my head and realized that the SHTF ....THEN the auto-pilot came on. Grabbing gun, checking that the mag was secure and firing four times....I can't take any credit / blame for that. That was 'auto-pilot'

After the 4 instinctive shots there was the opportunity to Observe, Orient, Decide and Act and I acted with intent to Kill the guy. (usually referred to as 'stop-the-threat'...you had to be there )

Still on my back I aimed very carefully with the Laser (3:00) AM and it hit first his head, then his right shoulder then perfectly center mass. The bullet hit him about 2 inches to his right-of-center-mass.....after passing through his windshield.

Lack of fine motor skills didn't see to be an issue...I was 'in-the-fight'...I wasn't shaking during the careful aim of the 5th shot. I once saved a drowning man's life as a Lifeguard and went into full-auto-pilot during the frequently-practiced rescue maneuver....which really surprised me as a 17year old boy...I saved the guy's life...but I didn't DO anything...it was automatic.

My take away from the Mugging is: Keep-Your-Eyes-Open...whatever will happen won't be what your Expecting.

[Squib Joe]

Three years ago I was mugged and had to fire all 7 rounds in the gun at the bad guy and fortunately I did exactly as practiced. I was then able to very carefully aim the 5th shot right between his nipples and that ultimately stopped him.

Did this happen in a state other than Minnesota? Things like this are normally all over the news

[gunsmith]

Three years ago I was mugged and had to fire all 7 rounds in the gun at the bad guy and fortunately I did exactly as practiced. I was then able to very carefully aim the 5th shot right between his nipples and that ultimately stopped him.

Did this happen in a state other than Minnesota? Things like this are normally all over the news

It happened in a western state on vacation and both parties were GOA when the cops arrived...He fled and bled and I split as well. "Next Time" I won't be so 'Lucky' the non-involvement of the police obviously makes a huge difference. Joe Olson has some very strong ideas about 'STFU' regarding incidents including 'how to call 911' without making a needlessly incriminating statement. He's adamant about "Shut The Eff Up"

What I want to tell people is that 'It won't be what you expect' All 7 rounds were fired while I was laying on my back...last thing in the world I would have expected. I had A 'twinge' of PSTD which is 95% gone now and in public I actively pursue 'Awareness'...by quieting the mind and 'listening'

Another thing: That PTSD is real. You have no control over it. Your Subconscious gets frickin Involuntarily Rewired. I had a splash of it but it was real. It gives me an understanding of those who have a full dose.....they aren't faking it...their subconscious has been rewired. for me it boiled down to NOT BEING ABLE TO TOLERATE the presence of someone behind me in a public parking lot....it gave me the heebie-jeebies. Inside the store was ok but I had to turn and wait for someone to pass me if they were following me into a store. Just an annoyance and could be a benchmark for the 'Minimum' level of PTSD. Good news is that ...memory / experience continues to fade but I expect it to remain for years and to always have that 'street cat' feeling.

[Squib Joe]

It happened in a western state on vacation and both parties were GOA when the cops arrived...He fled and bled and I split as well. "Next Time" I won't be so 'Lucky' the non-involvement of the police obviously makes a huge difference. Joe Olson has some very strong ideas about 'STFU' regarding incidents including 'how to call 911' without making a needlessly incriminating statement. He's adamant about "Shut The Eff Up"

So you critically injured or killed somebody, left the scene, and decided it would be a good thing to recount on public forums?

[ericinmn1970]

Train more. I think the "reduced fine motor skills" in a stressful situation concept is highly overblown and be overcome with just practice and good muscle memory, and the extra time it takes is meaningless, practically speaking. Personally, I think the chances that I'd ever need to draw and fire a carry weapon are extraordinarily remote, let alone the chance that I'd run out of ammo and have to reload. I don't carry any extra magazines anyway.

To your question...I prefer an overhand slide release too, so that's not an issue. I have small hands too but have no trouble working the slide release or the trigger-guard magazine release on my Walther PPQ. Likewise, I can work both on my PPS, which is the gun I prefer to carry (if I carry) without shifting grip.

Yeah, I know. But I feel compelled to train for the worst in this regard. I'd never considered a Walther before. Thanks!

[ericinmn1970]

There is no such thing as a slide release on a pistol. There is a slide lock. You can manually disengage the slide lock by pressing it down. Or you can simply use an overhand grip to pull the slide rearward and release. The latter being the preferred way except in competition, since it works on all semi-autos regardless of the location of the slide lock.

Not being able to reach the mag release with a proper shooting grip isn't unusual. Just practice turning the gun slightly in your hand when you bring it into your workspace for a reload, and then rotating it straight when punching back out to full presentation. I do this even when I can reach the mag release on smaller pistols. It's just a good idea to learn to operate your pistols one consistent way, that works with all of your guns. This ads no additional time to your reload, and doesn't rely on fine muscle control.

During a chemical cocktail dump, our body reacts the exact same way that it did when a caveman encountered a saber-tooth tiger. Fine muscle control is sacrificed in favor of gross muscle strength. The blood vessels closest to the skin contract to reduce bleeding. A whole assortment of physiological changes occur that while assisting the caveman, can work against you as a modern human trying to operate a firearm.

Training to the point where you can shoot a pistol using procedural memory (AKA muscle memory) is typically all that's needed to be able to shoot properly during a cocktail dump. If you have to think about grip, sights, etc. when shooting, that's when a loss of fine grained motor skills is tends to become a problem.

If your curious how your current pistol skills will serve you during a chemical cocktail dump, safety check your weapon for dryfire, and load your mags with snap caps. Put on a pair of surgical gloves, and submerge your hands in ice water for several minutes, until your hands begin to tingle and feel stiff. Be careful not to get frostbite, if your hands become numb you've left them in the ice water too long.

Once your hands have become cold enough to feel stiff, pull them out, strip your gloves off and immediately draw your weapon, dry fire, drop the mag, reload, dryfire again, etc. Cold, stiff hands very closely simulates the effects of a loss of fine motor control during a cocktail dump. Manipulating your gun under these conditions feels different, but if you've developed the muscle memory necessary, you'll find that you are in fact able to manipulate your gun without fine motor control without much difficulty at all.

Proving this to yourself with the ice trick is a good confidence booster if your concerned about how your hands will work if you find yourself in a life threatening situation, and experience the effects of a cocktail dump while still in the fight. Another reality is that quite often the situation is over before the full effects of a chemical cocktail hit you.

I am so going to try this! My fiance is going to think I've lost it!

[farmerj]

Get over your caliber hangup and try something smaller as well.

Placement is more critical than size.

[Kid Maker]

Use the Glock, slam the mag and it racks itself. Unless it is the new G42, but then if you cant reach anything on that you must have little boy hands. Turning the weapon during reloading is almost a common practice. Train and repeat, like it has been said, muscle memory. If you want to have fun, add a dummy round or two in the middle of the mag.