EAA Witness 10mm Headache

[macphisto]

This was going to be a PM to Seismic Sam, but I figured others might be able to offer advice as well since this issue is probably not necessarily limited to Witness pistols or guns chambered in 10mm.

I bought a Witness 10mm in September and it has given me nothing but problems. I have yet to make it through a whole magazine (not even close) without a type-3 malfunction...fired case in chamber with a new round on top. In addition to the 14lb factory recoil spring, I've tried 18 and 22lb Wolff springs and a variety of ammo. Nothing seems to make a difference.

As suggested at the last North Breakfast, I ruled out magazine problems on a recent range trip by chambering a single round and removing the magazine. I fired the cartridge and the slide returned to battery. Then I locked the slide back and found the spent case in the chamber.

This all seems to point to an extractor problem. I've read reports from other Witness 10mm owners saying the extractor is "too aggressive" and should be filed down to ensure proper extraction. I'm not sure I feel comfortable doing that at this point.

Any suggestions? I'd really like to avoid shipping this off to EAA as their customer service is known to be rather abysmal.

[David]

Mac,

I'm not sure which model you have, but I have a Witness Stock in 10MM and I've never had a malfunction of any kind with it. I've fired only two kinds of ammo through it, though. PMC Bronze and American Eagle. The PMC is full-power, and the AE is neutered. Didn't seem to matter.

That doesn't qualify as a suggestion, I suppose, but I think it means there's hope for your pistol!

Oh, and yeah, it sounds like an extractor problem. I'd order a new one, and I wouldn't hesitate to file the old one, but I'd look at it very carefully to see exactly what the problem is, otherwise you won't know where and how much to file. Do small amounts at a time until it does what you want it to. If that sounds scary, then don't mess with it and either find a 'smith you trust or send it back.

Finally, I have no idea if our extractors are swappable, but if so, I'd be willing to swap mine into yours and see if it fixes the problem. Even if the extractor is the problem it might not solve the issue, since other things come into play, but it might be a cheap way to possibly diagnose your problem.

[macphisto]

Thanks David, I'd like to try your extractor if possible. It's a $30 part so I'd rather not order a replacement unless it's absolutely necessary. When you get a chance, can you please check your gun and tell me how much play there is on the extractor? Mine seems kind of wobbly, but I don't have much experience with external extractors so I'm not sure if it's supposed to be that way. I'm going to detail strip the slide and see if I can figure anything out.

[Pinnacle]

You are on the right track withthe extractor issue as the cause but I think that there is something more sinister to look at - perhaps and I man perhaps there is a rough spot in the chamber.

[macphisto]

The spent cases are never stuck in the chamber and fall out freely with the help of gravity. I sure hope it's not a chamber issue.

With a gun from almost any other manufacturer, I'd ship it in and let them work out the bugs, but I'm hesitant to do that after reading numerous horror stories about EAA's service department. Apparently, they love blaming problems on the ammo you've been shooting...and it doesn't matter what ammo you're using.

[macphisto]

Oh, and David, not to bust your chops, but PMC Bronze, while maybe not as neutered as some other brands, is not full-power 10mm!

Muzzle Velocity and Energy

PMC Bronze
200gr - 1050fps, 490 ft. lbs.
170gr - 1200fps, 544 ft. lbs.

DoubleTap
200gr - 1250fps, 694 ft. lbs.
180gr - 1350fps, 728 ft. lbs.
165gr - 1425fps, 744 ft. lbs.
135gr - 1600fps, 767 ft. lbs.

[justaguy]

Have you tried throwing it? I do that with most things that don’t work. I don’t think it has ever helped the problem, and maybe caused more, but I felt better. Or there is always a big hammer.

[Stradawhovious]

Have you tried throwing it? I do that with most things that don’t work. I don’t think it has ever helped the problem, and maybe caused more, but I felt better. Or there is always a big hammer.

Last time I was at the range with mac it went something like this.....
Bang!
"****"
[sounds of slide being worked, and mag being futzed with]

Bang!
"****"
[sounds of slide being worked, and mag being futzed with]

Bang!
"****"
Gun shaped hole appears in target.

[Seismic Sam]

Mac - I may be free on Friday (the office party is Thursday, and it's at MY house. Dunno where you live, but I'm in Afton and if you came over I could at least take a look at the pistol. Mine didn't work right out of the box either. BTW - 10mm Stock pistols DO work prefectly out of the box, but they're about 300 dollars more.

[David]

Oh, and David, not to bust your chops, but PMC Bronze, while maybe not as neutered as some other brands, is not full-power 10mm!

Whoa! I'll have to get me some of that stuff! I figured when the PMC was so obviously snappier than the AE that it must be pretty close to the real deal. Now I see that I'm a girly man after all.

I'll check my extractor tonight and let you know how it feels.

[macphisto]

Sam, I may have to take you up on your kind offer. It's about a half-hour each way, but I'm sure it would be worthwhile (even if we can't get the gun figured out ).

Now I see that I'm a girly man after all.

Don't be so hard on yourself. You've got the manly gun, now you just need the right ammo. If you haven't done so already, get (and install) the 22lb spring to avoid cracking your slide/frame when shooting the hot stuff: http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.e ... mid=777435

[1911fan]

Mac take up SS's offer on a visit to the Manse. then we will have a pathfinder for the rest of us to follow when we have the MNGUNTALK holiday party at his house on Sat.

[justaguy]

Mac take up SS's offer on a visit to the Manse. then we will have a pathfinder for the rest of us to follow when we have the MNGUNTALK holiday party at his house on Sat.

I thought it was Friday

[achey]

Mine seems kind of wobbly, .

Sounds like this is your problem. Someone else thought that the extracter was too aggressisve. Maybe it was not.



achey

[Widge]

Did you try asking over at http://www.czforumsite.info/index.php ? They might be able to help or suggest a 'smith who can. They have quite a large EAA following on the forum, not to mention Angus Hobdell and Mathew Mink helping out.